Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Discussion of all things crypto and blockchain.
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fredzoyt
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby fredzoyt » Tue Jul 10, 2018

Force Majeure wrote:I wouldn't classify BitCoin as honest money in the true sense of what that means. Yes it is transparent, but its only intrinsic value is in its utility, and its utility can be circumvented by all the copycats. And although those copycats clearly indicate a trend, not a fad, that doesn't bode very well for BitCoin which will lose all its miners as soon as there are no more free coins to mine. Nor does it bode well for any specific cryptocurrency which will continue to lose market share to a growing number of copycats. Not to mention all the energy it takes to mine that is now causing local power companies to lease out their power to the highest bidder so that people don't move in from out of area to exploit low electricity prices. The days of cheap mining are gone, and unless people are taking profits like they should be, all an investment in BitCoin really amounts to is furthering the cashless society. The youths may not rail against their phones spying on them as they use a fully tracked digital currency on a device that tracks their GPS coordinates and listens in on their conversations, but anybody dumb enough to give away their freedom probably isn't going to earn a good income either. Cryptos will be the currency used by debt slaves once fiat currency gives up the ghost. Precious metals are money. They really have nothing in common other than that they are both functional currencies and neither one is endorsed by the current establishment, but they are making their own copycats very soon.


Hello Force Majeure,

Why don't you head over to the intro section and introduce yourself. :thumbup:
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Tue Jul 10, 2018

Your either in or out. Time will tell.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Thu Jul 12, 2018

Force Majeure wrote:I wouldn't classify BitCoin as honest money in the true sense of what that means.

This is a semantics game around what you deem "honest money" and until you clarify your terms, it is just a matter of opinion.
Force Majeure wrote:Yes it is transparent, but its only intrinsic value is in its utility, and its utility can be circumvented by all the copycats.

Incorrect, but again we get back to the semantics of intrinsic value. Those against PMs would argue that you can't eat gold and therefore it has no intrinsic value. Copycats are of minimal concern. Every year that goes by that somebody tries to "invent the new bitcoin" is yet another year under bitcoin's belt where it has lasted as the most secure, most developed crypto. And it is a free market. If ETH or some other crypto overtakes bitcoin one day, that is fine. We can swap to that. In the crypto world that is as easy as hitting a few keys on a computer or phone.
Force Majeure wrote:And although those copycats clearly indicate a trend, not a fad, that doesn't bode very well for BitCoin which will lose all its miners as soon as there are no more free coins to mine.

Incorrect. Miners make fees from the emission of bitcoin (currently 12.5 bitcoin about every 10 minutes), and from the fees of all the transactions in each block. In a couple hundred years, when no further bitcoins are emitted, the miners will continue work for the fees in the transactions in each block. The bitcoin emission rate halves every 4 years. This has been a trend since the January 2009 when bitcoin's genesis block began. Mining is profitable based on the electricity costs, hashrate, difficulty parameters (which adjust about every 2 weeks), and the number of competing miners.
Force Majeure wrote:Nor does it bode well for any specific cryptocurrency which will continue to lose market share to a growing number of copycats.

Market share is not an important metric. This is a network where the number of users on the system is what gives it value, not profits, earnings, or cash flow statements. Bitcoin could have a 5% market share of the crypto market and it is of no concern.
Force Majeure wrote:Not to mention all the energy it takes to mine that is now causing local power companies to lease out their power to the highest bidder so that people don't move in from out of area to exploit low electricity prices. The days of cheap mining are gone, and unless people are taking profits like they should be, all an investment in BitCoin really amounts to is furthering the cashless society.

This is the big scare argument... all the electricity. Come back to this in 10 years and let's see if these scare predictions hold any water. 2nd and 3rd generation cryptos are already converting to other consensus mechanisms that don't require Proof of Work levels of electricity. As to a cashless society, we are nearly there already. Crypto actually has the ability to be cashless and private, whereas today cashless = every transaction tracked through a third party (bank, credit card, etc) who has the power to not allow transactions for any reason whatsoever.
Force Majeure wrote:The youths may not rail against their phones spying on them as they use a fully tracked digital currency on a device that tracks their GPS coordinates and listens in on their conversations, but anybody dumb enough to give away their freedom probably isn't going to earn a good income either. Cryptos will be the currency used by debt slaves once fiat currency gives up the ghost.

Debt slaves? This makes no sense. Are there any lending institutions creating bitcoin out of thin air, and lending it as a fractional reserve currency? Bitcoin is debt free by design, with a known quantity, that can't be inflated due to the corrupt political whims of "benevolent" leaders.
Force Majeure wrote:Precious metals are money.

Hey, we agree on something!
Force Majeure wrote:They really have nothing in common other than that they are both functional currencies and neither one is endorsed by the current establishment, but they are making their own copycats very soon.

Currently, the establishment can much more easily manipulate (suppress) prices of PMs than cryptos. Until PM deliveries actually fail to be made, TPTB can naked short paper metals all day every day with no consequence from government officials. One needs to own the bitcoin to short it (or have a well funded margin account), and on the bitcoin futures markets - those contracts are settled in dollars - they own no bitcoin. The bitcoin price discovery happens on each individual exchange: Coinbase, BitMex, Bitfinex, Kraken, etc, etc unlike PMs.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby DG2009 » Thu Jul 12, 2018

:clap:
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby cmiller17363 » Thu Jul 12, 2018

I was waiting for it. :lol: :thumbup:
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Thu Jul 12, 2018

Great post Doge.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Sun Jul 15, 2018

An interesting read from WaPo about a teacher in the Bronx who gave each student $5 worth of Zcash. But not so they can get rich trading crypto:

Acevedo thinks the current interest in blockchain is a lot like the gold rush of the mid-1800s. Tens of thousands migrated to California in search of gold, but the people who ended up making the most money were the store owners selling picks and shovels. He urges the students to be the blockchain developers — the modern-day “picks and shovel” sellers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 30a6280324

There's also mention of something called OpenBazaar, which is like ebay but accepts more than 50 cryptocurrencies as payment. Does anyone here have experience buying or selling with OpenBazaar?

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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Mon Jul 16, 2018

Gentlemen prefer Engelhard.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Mon Jul 16, 2018

The Big Money Bulls are getting ready to get into Crypto.

ZH: Bitcoin Bounces Back Above $6500 After BlackRock Creates Crypto Team
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-16/bitcoin-bounces-back-above-6500-after-blackrock-creates-crypto-team

CNBC: Bitcoin jumps as BlackRock looks into crypto and blockchain
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/16/bitcoin-jumps-after-report-says-blackrock-exploring-cryptocurrencies.html
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Fabio » Tue Jul 17, 2018

Bucketeer wrote:The Big Money Bulls are getting ready to get into Crypto.

ZH: Bitcoin Bounces Back Above $6500 After BlackRock Creates Crypto Team
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-16/bitcoin-bounces-back-above-6500-after-blackrock-creates-crypto-team

CNBC: Bitcoin jumps as BlackRock looks into crypto and blockchain
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/16/bitcoin-jumps-after-report-says-blackrock-exploring-cryptocurrencies.html


Jeez, a 10% jump. Haven't seen that in a while.

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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Tue Jul 17, 2018

If Blackrock develops a Bitcoin investment product, that would add a ton of legitimacy to Bitcoin.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Tue Jul 17, 2018

CNBC: Mastercard has a new patent that could allow Bitcoin transactions on credit cards.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/17/bitcoin-above-7000.html
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Wed Jul 18, 2018

Cointelegraph: Billionaire Investor Marc Lasry: Bitcoin Can Soon Hit $40,000 as Trading Becomes Easier
https://cointelegraph.com/news/billionaire-investor-marc-lasry-bitcoin-can-soon-hit-40-000-as-trading-becomes-easier
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby texmex66 » Wed Jul 18, 2018

Digital Currency Group CEO Says Bitcoin Has “Hit The Bottom for The Year”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT6TZh4U6cs

https://cointelegraph.com/news/digital- ... r-the-year
Last edited by texmex66 on Thu Jul 19, 2018, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby bigjohn » Thu Jul 19, 2018

Whatever happened to Long John? I don’t think I’ve seen him in weeks
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Thu Jul 19, 2018

Good question, I was wondering the same thing.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Fri Jul 20, 2018

gold-bitcoin etf.jpg
gold-bitcoin etf.jpg (81.34 KiB) Viewed 633 times
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby trapperrick » Sat Jul 21, 2018

One of the coolest things about this thread is the back and forth on the viability of crypto or is it just fake news....Sorry, I had to do that. :roll:
I really didn't know much about crypto at all until October of 2017 the skyrocketing prices created a buzz and the national media made light of it. (Oddly, it kind of nose dived right after that) This post has been going on since October of 2013 and now 5 years later there is some very insightful posts in favor of Bitcoin and other Crypto. I've been back and forth on this in my own mind. I opened a Coinbase account but never got in. Outside of its volatility there is just one thing that keeps stopping me and it was the second post on this thread

AGorBust wrote:There is a lot wrong with bitcoins, the first of which is it is strictly electronic. If the government limits your access to the internet they can effectively render you insolvent.


Also, if the power goes out, from an apoctalyptic point of view, do you actually own anything?


Anyway, I'm not saying I'm against it, quite the contrary. I read everything and anything that I can because I learned a number of years ago that I was financially illiterate and financial illiteracy leads to poverty. It is best to know how to sustain oneself should I become unable to work for a living. I read everything I can about PM's, Stocks, Bonds and for the past 7 months, crypto.

A more compelling argument to invest in Bitcoin is Bucketeer's last post of a possible Bitcoin ETF and the fact that Robinhood, my online brokerage account, is now trading a few forms of crypto.

Thanks again everyone for the compelling insight!
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Tue Jul 24, 2018

Bitcoinist: BITCOIN COULD SEE LARGEST BULL RUN IN HISTORY, SAYS MARKET ANALYST
https://bitcoinist.com/we-might-just-be-on-the-cusp-of-the-largest-bitcoin-bull-run-in-history-says-market-analyst/
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Tue Jul 24, 2018

ZH: Bitcoin ETF "Nearly Certain" To Win Approval Later This Year
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-23/bitcoin-etf-nearly-certain-win-approval-later-year
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