Bitcoins - fad or trend?

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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Tue Apr 11, 2017

Bix Weir - Bitcoin Illuminati Says BUY!

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Tue Apr 11, 2017

Bitcoin like a bad moon rising baby! :clap: Getting close to gold parity again (and I acknowledge that it is a completely arbitrary comparison).
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Tue Apr 11, 2017

Yeah, it is arbitrary comparing price between Bitcoin and Gold. The thing to think about is if 1% of the gold market moved into Bitcoin.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Apr 16, 2017

I originally posted this in Bitcoin Questions, but I don't think anyone looks in there any more. So I deleted and here it is:

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered... Bitcoin prices are all over the place, depending on the exchange. From low (1161 at this hour on Bitstamp and 1175 on Coinbase) to high (1207 on Poloniex and Bittrex). Does the gap represent the different premiums and fees tacked on by the different excchanges? In other words, Coinbase price does not include fees, but another exchange's does?

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Mon Apr 17, 2017

Long John wrote:I originally posted this in Bitcoin Questions, but I don't think anyone looks in there any more. So I deleted and here it is:

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered... Bitcoin prices are all over the place, depending on the exchange. From low (1161 at this hour on Bitstamp and 1175 on Coinbase) to high (1207 on Poloniex and Bittrex). Does the gap represent the different premiums and fees tacked on by the different excchanges? In other words, Coinbase price does not include fees, but another exchange's does?


I would say there are several factors involved. The fees are a part of it. Market depth would be another. But here is my primary reason. I was around when Mt Gox collapsed. Prices were all over the map due to withdrawal issues, rumors of problems, etc. For me, Coinbase has been the steady rock, and the first established mover that decided they were going to play by all the rules of the US regulation machine. If I pay a $10 premium per bitcoin to go through a reliable exchange that I am confident won't steal my coin and has a much less chance of going bankrupt or collapsing - then I'm willing to pay it.
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Long John
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Mon Apr 17, 2017

SilverDoge wrote: If I pay a $10 premium per bitcoin to go through a reliable exchange that I am confident won't steal my coin and has a much less chance of going bankrupt or collapsing - then I'm willing to pay it.

Fair enough. But CB is lower than most other exchanges. Is that because CB charges 4% on top of the posted price and other exchanges include their fees in the posted price? That's what I'm getting at. Is CB the "real" barometer of Bitcoin when others show a price of $30 higher?

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Mon Apr 17, 2017

Long John wrote:
SilverDoge wrote: If I pay a $10 premium per bitcoin to go through a reliable exchange that I am confident won't steal my coin and has a much less chance of going bankrupt or collapsing - then I'm willing to pay it.

Fair enough. But CB is lower than most other exchanges. Is that because CB charges 4% on top of the posted price and other exchanges include their fees in the posted price? That's what I'm getting at. Is CB the "real" barometer of Bitcoin when others show a price of $30 higher?


That could be a part of it. Or the wait time required on CB might be a variable. I have not used the other exchanges you referenced so I'd prefer not to comment on the worthiness and reliability of them. Maybe Tom or someone else with a broader exchange experience can speak to it?
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Mon Apr 17, 2017

Many of us have used Bittrex, so let's use that as an example. At this moment I can buy BTC at Coinbase for $1188. If I have money in my USD wallet, or use the slow bank acct method, add 1.5% for a total cost of $1205. If I use a credit card, add 4% for a total cost of $1233.

I send that 1.0 BTC to Bittrex, which says I can buy $1227 worth of coin with it. Thus I lose another $6 if I bought it with a credit card, gain $22 if not. I'm not counting the tiny network fees for transferral.

Am I understanding this correctly? Clearly it's better to have BTC at the ready, that was not purchased with a CC. But I'm trying to understand the BTC price differences at different exchanges, and if those can be used to advantage. Coinbase isn't really an exchange yet, you can only hold BTC, Ethereum, or USD. As I understand it, CB is more of a place to acquire Bitcoin than a place to store it (unless you're sitting on it, not using it).

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverpv » Mon Apr 17, 2017

Long John wrote:Many of us have used Bittrex, so let's use that as an example. At this moment I can buy BTC at Coinbase for $1188. If I have money in my USD wallet, or use the slow bank acct method, add 1.5% for a total cost of $1205. If I use a credit card, add 4% for a total cost of $1233.

I send that 1.0 BTC to Bittrex, which says I can buy $1227 worth of coin with it. Thus I lose another $6 if I bought it with a credit card, gain $22 if not. I'm not counting the tiny network fees for transferral.

Am I understanding this correctly? Clearly it's better to have BTC at the ready, that was not purchased with a CC. But I'm trying to understand the BTC price differences at different exchanges, and if those can be used to advantage. Coinbase isn't really an exchange yet, you can only hold BTC, Ethereum, or USD. As I understand it, CB is more of a place to acquire Bitcoin than a place to store it (unless you're sitting on it, not using it).


Don't forget your kickback from the credit card. Once you incorporate say a 2% incentive. Then the net difference is .5% for immediate vs bank transfer. So as long as your limits are there, then buying btc and transferring time is minimized. The lag time for a bank account is quite long. 5-7 business days. One of the reasons i didn't do the different transactions.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Mon Apr 17, 2017

Assuming your CC gives you 2% back, granted. I was not making that assumption, since not every CC does. In my case it's a debit card with 1% back.

But moving beyond the options for acquiring BTC at Coinbase, trying to drill into why CB says $1188 and Bittrex (for example) says $1226. I wouldn't think Bittrex is simply assuming some average fee paid to acquire BTC.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Mon Apr 17, 2017

Long John wrote:Assuming your CC gives you 2% back, granted. I was not making that assumption, since not every CC does. In my case it's a debit card with 1% back.

But moving beyond the options for acquiring BTC at Coinbase, trying to drill into why CB says $1188 and Bittrex (for example) says $1226. I wouldn't think Bittrex is simply assuming some average fee paid to acquire BTC.


Right now, if I input a purchase of 1 BTC on Coinbase. With my bank, it costs $1,192.09, plus $17.76 fee = $1,209.85. To buy with credit card the fee would be $47.69. Looking at Bittrex, the BTC price at the very bottom of the screen says $1,200.51. That is an $8 difference before fees and a $9 difference after fees. It nearly splits the difference. Seems fair enough to me.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Thu Apr 20, 2017

Because there is an eBucks promotion, I looked through eBay's Bitcoin listings, not really expecting to find anything credible or useful. Amidst all the outrageously priced tiny bits of BTC were some listings of cheap BTC in useful sizes. But then you check their feedback, and without exception there is either NO feedback from BTC buyers, or bad FB claiming scam. Some of these haven't sold or bought anything in the past year. I suspect hijacked accounts. They promise delivery in 5 minutes, but you can't file a nondelivery claim for some number of days or weeks (they specified a delivery deadline far down the road, in spite of the 5 minute claim) so either PayPal has to eat the loss because the scammer has cleared out the account and is gone, or the scammer got an interest-free loan to finance other pursuits. Beware sellers who haven't sold anything for a year, or who have no history of a happy BTC buyer.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Thu Apr 20, 2017

Long John wrote:Because there is an eBucks promotion, I looked through eBay's Bitcoin listings, not really expecting to find anything credible or useful. Amidst all the outrageously priced tiny bits of BTC were some listings of cheap BTC in useful sizes. But then you check their feedback, and without exception there is either NO feedback from BTC buyers, or bad FB claiming scam. Some of these haven't sold or bought anything in the past year. I suspect hijacked accounts. They promise delivery in 5 minutes, but you can't file a nondelivery claim for some number of days or weeks (they specified a delivery deadline far down the road, in spite of the 5 minute claim) so either PayPal has to eat the loss because the scammer has cleared out the account and is gone, or the scammer got an interest-free loan to finance other pursuits. Beware sellers who haven't sold anything for a year, or who have no history of a happy BTC buyer.


I don't think I would ever buy BTC on eBay. I recall somebody getting hosed over a digital gift card once too. Just too easy to get scammed that way.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Fri Apr 21, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:I don't think I would ever buy BTC on eBay. I recall somebody getting hosed over a digital gift card once too. Just too easy to get scammed that way.

Based on what I saw in my browsng, there is no fear of that! The legitimate ones with FB from BTC buyers are people selling tiny fractions at a very high markup. I guess there is a market for that, if you need .001 BTC quickly for some reason. But others are blatant scams, dozens of BTC for sale from accounts that sold only an occasional piece of clothng or toy up until a year ago then went dormant... until now.

Some years ago, I thought eBay banned sale of digital goods, with the exception of maybe gift cards. They must have brought it back and I never noticed.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Fri Apr 21, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:
Long John wrote:I originally posted this in Bitcoin Questions, but I don't think anyone looks in there any more. So I deleted and here it is:

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered... Bitcoin prices are all over the place, depending on the exchange. From low (1161 at this hour on Bitstamp and 1175 on Coinbase) to high (1207 on Poloniex and Bittrex). Does the gap represent the different premiums and fees tacked on by the different excchanges? In other words, Coinbase price does not include fees, but another exchange's does?


I would say there are several factors involved. The fees are a part of it. Market depth would be another. But here is my primary reason. I was around when Mt Gox collapsed. Prices were all over the map due to withdrawal issues, rumors of problems, etc. For me, Coinbase has been the steady rock, and the first established mover that decided they were going to play by all the rules of the US regulation machine. If I pay a $10 premium per bitcoin to go through a reliable exchange that I am confident won't steal my coin and has a much less chance of going bankrupt or collapsing - then I'm willing to pay it.


LJ - here is another perfect example of what I was referring to earlier. The hardest part of crypto is getting out of the fiat system, and into the crypto system - because of all the regulations and hoops. I go through Coinbase (or their exchange GDAX) to ideally avoid problems outlined here:

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Fri Apr 21, 2017

Since GDAX is Coinbase's exchange, do they withdraw directly from your CB wallet?

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Fri Apr 21, 2017

Long John wrote:Since GDAX is Coinbase's exchange, do they withdraw directly from your CB wallet?


You can transfer between Coinbase and GDAX (and vice versa) free and instantly.

https://support.gdax.com/customer/en/po ... d-coinbase
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Mon Apr 24, 2017

India is expected to legalize Bitcoin as a currency on May 29 or 30.

https://btcmanager.com/india-potentially-massive-market-for-bitcoin-if-legalized/
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Altima » Mon Apr 24, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:India is expected to legalize Bitcoin as a currency on May 29 or 30.

https://btcmanager.com/india-potentially-massive-market-for-bitcoin-if-legalized/


Maybe they're happier to have their citizens own bitcoin instead of gold. But I don't think that will work.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Mon Apr 24, 2017

Altima wrote:
Bucketeer wrote:India is expected to legalize Bitcoin as a currency on May 29 or 30.

https://btcmanager.com/india-potentially-massive-market-for-bitcoin-if-legalized/


Maybe they're happier to have their citizens own bitcoin instead of gold. But I don't think that will work.


You missed the whole point of the post. India is going to adopt Bitcoin as a legal currency.

Maybe you need to re-read the "adoption rates" of Unocoin.

Gold is black money in India, Bitcoin is not.

The whole reason Modi pulled the 500 & 1000 Rupee was to get rid of black money.
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