Russian hacking?

Please put all polls here.

Did Russia directly &/or indirectly hack the 2016 election process?

Yes
16
33%
No
33
67%
 
Total votes: 49

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BigBamboula
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby BigBamboula » Tue Dec 13, 2016

Godwin's law will have to wait. The fair play rule means that Trump gets to scream "racist" as a defence for the next eight years and anything bad that happens to the economy for the next six and a half years is Obama's fault.

Oh yeah, what's the hold up with Trump's Peace Prize?
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby wjruth » Tue Dec 13, 2016

BigBamboula wrote:Oh yeah, what's the hold up with Trump's Peace Prize?


When he can get more than 50% of the popular vote and more than 8% of the black vote, we can start to talk about it.

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Long John
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby Long John » Tue Dec 13, 2016

I no longer care about the content of the hacked emails. She lost, was sent forcibly into retirement, mission accomplished. Even Trump ceased to care about it, once he won. Maybe somebody smart close to him was blunt: "Listen, the Russians or a NSA geek or somebody in the world has your emails and texts for the past 2 years, and can put them on WikiLeaks at any time it suits their purpose. Might want to change the subject."

But consider the way we have manipulated elections in other countries ... The thought of it being done to us might be poetic justice to some people, but it is still disturbing. HRC won the popular vote by more than 2.5 million, and they weren't all illegal Mexicans and dead people. She lost the key Electoral College states by less than 1 percent. If that 1 percent in that handful of states had voted the other way, due to the winner-take-all system, we would be having a very different conversation now. Suppose Putin had directed his hackers to find and leak dirt on Trump instead, or make the fake internet stories about him. Would that have swayed 1 percent in 3 or 4 key states? I don't like that scenario, either.

Praising Putin's leadership and promising to lift U.S. sanctions was a smart strategic move. That was all that was necessary. There didn't need to be any more than that, and I would be surprised if there was any evidence that there was.

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Double3
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby Double3 » Tue Dec 13, 2016

Image

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Long John
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby Long John » Tue Dec 13, 2016

Double3 wrote:Image


You do realize that image and text came from the Russians, right? :lol:

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jcz1
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby jcz1 » Tue Dec 13, 2016

tractorman wrote: I still haven't found a reliable news source that doesn't have an agenda.


So you come here for your news? If you haven't found one, why would you think anyone here has?
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silverpv
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby silverpv » Tue Dec 13, 2016

Engineer wrote:
There are plenty of questionable people that support Trump. Like the white supremacist groups. That was a good deflection though from the Saudis though.


After all the BS allegations of racism in the last year, using it in an argument is the new measure of Godwin's Law. :pop:

So your problem with Trumps cabinet members is being too large to prosecute. How the hell is that different than Hillary, Pelosi, Reid, Ryan, McConnel, or any of the other Democrat leaders? They all seem to be made of teflon.

At least with Trump, they're people who have made money rather than taken money through graft.

Regarding Assange's warrant, it has been traced back to the Clinton Foundation via Claire and Todd...unsurprisingly, sex allegations just as Hillary made against Trump.

As for why Trump is in office, your guess is as good as mine...possibly better since I enticed people to vote against Trump by betting for him to win.

If I had to guess, he's there solely to disrupt the globalist agenda. I'm ok with that.


What you call BS racism. I've experienced first hand. Also, I just used it as an example of questionable support. It happens on both sides but pretend everyone who supports trump is somehow "better" is wrong. We made a choice, that is all it boils down to.

Assange warrant is from Sweden. A warrant from Russia called by Putin who actively goes after opponents. Once again no different but actually Sweden hardly prosecutes anyone.

My problem with the cabinet picks. "Hillary is friendly to wall st" puts Goldman Sachs CEO as economic advisor. What I and a lot of others see that for some odd reason many don't is that Trump is doing the exact opposite of what he said. He Used 'marketing' tactics to get your vote and then praise him for the same crap or even less severe than what a Hillary would do. Can you just imagine what you would be saying if Hillary appointed Jamie Dimone as Economoic advisor? It would validate all your arguments but for some reason it's Goldman Sachs and it is great! She talked to bankers and Trump voters had a hissy fit.

My problem is that you have the people that PAID the lobbyists now sitting at the table directly affecting and leading govt policy. These policies can easily influence and increase their bottom line and his too. Do they know how to manage money? Yep. Have they used their wealth and power to benefit people or themselves? Anyways, we've digressed. I don't have as much faith that they will give up their conflicts to help the American people out of the goodness of their hearts, they would've done it already. I don't mind being wrong, I'm skeptical. I question who's in power, not which party is in power. Do you mind being wrong about Trump?

The real crux of this topic is The Who behind it which you keep changing or avoiding but I don't mind the discussion. That is important because it will give us clues as to the motive and if there might be more attacks. If it was a Bernie supporter, it's way different thank Russian backed. We need to know to make informed decisions. All we can do is discuss/debate.

I'm not "against" trump, I just didn't vote for him. I've followed him for years through his real estate, wrestling years, apprentice, Miss Universe, etc. highly respect what he's been able to do. He's an OG "shark". What we do with the info after we find out will be interesting. Unless something absolutely more strange happens Trump will be President. He's known to have more than one interest in mind so I will watch and hope he does well but don't give him a free pass just because he's who you voted for. I would've voted for him if it weren't for a few things. Plenty of my friends did and guess what, were still friends.

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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby dru708 » Tue Dec 13, 2016

So that was a fun little topic.

Thanks to all who participated!
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BigBamboula
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby BigBamboula » Tue Dec 13, 2016

wjruth wrote:
BigBamboula wrote:Oh yeah, what's the hold up with Trump's Peace Prize?


When he can get more than 50% of the popular vote and more than 8% of the black vote, we can start to talk about it.


That sounds a bit racist, but I don't hold it against you, probably Obama's fault.

Man, that does make debate easier, maybe those Democrats are on to something after all!
"As sure as God made black and white,
what's done in the dark will be brought to the light."

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CaptainW
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby CaptainW » Tue Dec 13, 2016

Here's an article by Simon Black on how the hacking occurred in terms that I could understand:

"If there’s one thing that’s certain in the intelligence business, it’s that there’s rarely any certainty.

That’s pretty much the first thing they teach you at spy school.

Back in the early days of my intelligence career, I had one instructor who explained it in a way that I’ll never forget.

“If you present your analysis as if it’s fact, instead of conjecture, the person who’s relying on your intelligence could end up making a bad decision that gets people killed.”

Intelligence is not about definitive conclusions. It’s about gathering data and coming up with plausible theories that connect the dots.

Sadly, sometimes those theories are influenced by personal or political agendas.

Back in 2002-2003, the Bush White House had a pretty clear predisposition that Iraq possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs).

Miraculously, the intelligence reports conformed to that narrative.

And America went to war based on an “unassailable conclusion” from the intelligence community that Iraq had WMDs.

The facts were largely bogus, circumstantial at best. But this became the rallying cry behind every politician and media outlet’s patriotic bloodlust.

How quickly they all forget.

Here we are today with a new assertion: those dastardly Russians hacked Hillary Clinton and the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

I read it in the New York Times, so it must be true.

Once again there is a chorus of condemnation from the intelligence community and political establishment based on supposed rock-solid conclusions.

Yet once again the assertions are nothing more than theories that connect some very circumstantial dots.

Here’s the actual evidence:

The hacks were executed using two types of malware known as Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear.

(Yes that’s what they’re actually called.)

Fancy Bear is malware that takes a conventional “phishing” approach.

A phishing attack is when a hacker creates a web page that’s almost an exact copy of one that you’re used to.

For example, they’ll create a website that looks like your bank’s login page.

So if you click on a malicious link in your email that takes you to the fake page, you’ll inadvertently supply a hacker with your bank username and password.

They’ll then use that information to compromise your bank account.

Fancy Bear allowed hackers to gain access to private emails… primarily because the users at the DNC got duped into providing their login credentials.

Cozy Bear is the second piece of malware that installs itself on a computer, typically after a user clicks on a malicious web link.

One installed, the Cozy Bear malware deploys Remote Access Tools (known as RATs), providing a remote hacker access to the machine and its files.

If, however, Cozy Bear finds that the machine has advanced security software that could detect the malware and cause problems for the RATs, Cozy Bear will self-terminate.

So the first thing to point out here is that the DNC (and potentially the people who were administering Hillary’s private email server) weren’t maintaining the latest security patches and updates on their systems.

Someone at the DNC clicked on a malicious web link that installed the malware, and it didn’t self-terminate because they weren’t bothering to use advanced security software.

Duh.

This is a simple competence issue, and I’m surprised it never came up in the news.

More importantly, Cozy Bear was used against the DNC as far back as summer 2015... as in just before, or right after, Donald Trump entered the race.

So it’s hard for me to believe that Vladimir Putin was actively hacking the DNC to support a candidate that had barely (or not even yet) materialized.

Most importantly, just because cybersecurity experts detected Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear doesn’t mean that the Russians were behind the attacks.

These assertions aren’t based on concrete facts; they’re just speculating that Colonel Mustard did it in the library with the candlestick.

(Apologies to our readers who are too young to have played Clue.)

But facts (or lack of facts) don’t matter.

Whenever something bad happens, the US government blames Russia… and everyone believes it without taking any time to question the evidence.

It’s as if we’re living in some lame espionage movie from the 1980s where the Russians are always the bad guys.

Look, I have absolutely zero regard for the Russian government (as is the case with just about every country’s government).

But I find it almost hilariously short-sighted how quickly everyone rushes to judgment against the Russians. Or the Chinese. Or the North Koreans.

Sure, maybe the Russians did it. And I’m happy to believe that’s the case once clear evidence is presented.

But it’s worth acknowledging right now that their assertions are nowhere near conclusive.

It’s not like this is the first time in US history that the federal government or one of its intelligence agencies could be wrong… or… <shudder> have a reason to lie.

It’s notable that last week President Obama ordered the entire intelligence community to investigate the Russian hacks.

Given the Obama administration’s numerous statements about the Russians’ complicity, and the nonstop media coverage about the “conclusive” evidence, it’s pretty clear that the outcome of the report is already pre-determined.

Just like the Iraq/WMD analysis back in 2002-2003, this investigation is biased by the boss’s predisposition that the Russians are guilty.

What I find most disturbing, though, is how they can’t let it go that the Russians influenced the election and manipulated voter sentiment.

I’m sure we can all appreciate that the hacks, no matter who perpetrated them, constitute criminal activity.

But the information that was released as a result of the hacks shined a painful and embarrassing spotlight on the inner workings of the corrupt political establishment.

So when the papers and politicians complain that the hacks influenced the election (as if the US government has never tried to influence a foreign election), they’re really just whining that voters found out the truth.

They have that little respect for your dignity."

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Double3
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby Double3 » Tue Dec 13, 2016

BigBamboula wrote:
wjruth wrote:
BigBamboula wrote:Oh yeah, what's the hold up with Trump's Peace Prize?


When he can get more than 50% of the popular vote and more than 8% of the black vote, we can start to talk about it.


That sounds a bit racist, but I don't hold it against you, probably Obama's fault.

Man, that does make debate easier, maybe those Democrats are on to something after all!

Image

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jcz1
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby jcz1 » Tue Dec 13, 2016

Sure, maybe the Russians did it. And I’m happy to believe that’s the case once clear evidence is presented.


Sometimes the public doesn't get to know every single thing due to classification issues. As I stated earlier. those in Congress who have seen the classified details have stated that the hack came from Russia. This comes FROM BOTH SIDES.

Again, as I stated earlier, the dispute is the reason. Some have said that the intent was to weaken Clinton, as the assumed winner, to make it somehow easier to deal with her or something like that.

Someone at the DNC clicked on a malicious web link that installed the malware, and it didn’t self-terminate because they weren’t bothering to use advanced security software.

Duh.

This is a simple competence issue, and I’m surprised it never came up in the news.


Once again, as I stated earlier, this was covered by ABC, among others. The hack was attempted against the RNC and similar targets but was unsuccessful.
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Bucketeer
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby Bucketeer » Tue Dec 13, 2016

jcz1 wrote:This comes FROM BOTH SIDES.


Agreement from BOTH SIDES is meaningless. That's 2-party thinking.

I don't believe any of Trump's supporters identify with either party, and although they may have more common ground with Republicans, I'm not too sure that McConnell or Ryan's agreements on this issue is going to change any minds. Congress isn't trusted by the public. Ryan is especially untrustworthy.

Besides, Putin didn't need to weaken Hillary. She and the DNC did that all by themselves. Wikileaks just lifted the veil.
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Engineer
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby Engineer » Tue Dec 13, 2016

During the playoffs, somebody broke into the Vikings coach's house and dragged a freezer full of body parts out into the street. The Vikings coached blamed it on the Packers.

The Packers eventually won the Super Bowl.

A month later during the off season, the Vikings coach is still blaming the Packers, and purple people are screaming for the head of the unknown Packer who snuck into the house while the body parts are still sitting there in the freezer, and the police don't seem to care why he had them in his basement.

The dangerous Packer must be found!
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Double3
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby Double3 » Tue Dec 13, 2016

Image

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flyingboujanero
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby flyingboujanero » Tue Dec 13, 2016

Engineer wrote:During the playoffs, somebody broke into the Vikings coach's house and dragged a freezer full of body parts out into the street. The Vikings coached blamed it on the Packers.

The Packers eventually won the Super Bowl.

A month later during the off season, the Vikings coach is still blaming the Packers, and purple people are screaming for the head of the unknown Packer who snuck into the house while the body parts are still sitting there in the freezer, and the police don't seem to care why he had them in his basement.

The dangerous Packer must be found!


10-1 it was hookers from their Boat parties. Where is LJ to take that bet!
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jcz1
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby jcz1 » Tue Dec 13, 2016

Engineer wrote:During the playoffs, somebody broke into the Vikings coach's house and dragged a freezer full of body parts out into the street. The Vikings coached blamed it on the Packers.

The Packers eventually won the Super Bowl.

A month later during the off season, the Vikings coach is still blaming the Packers, and purple people are screaming for the head of the unknown Packer who snuck into the house while the body parts are still sitting there in the freezer, and the police don't seem to care why he had them in his basement.

The dangerous Packer must be found!


Obiovusly, since it was the Packer that put them there.
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Double3
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby Double3 » Tue Dec 13, 2016

This just in....

Image

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jcz1
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby jcz1 » Tue Dec 13, 2016

Double3 wrote:This just in....

Image


I can clearly see the Russian flag on that spaceship.
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jcz1
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Re: Russian hacking?

Postby jcz1 » Tue Dec 13, 2016

tomfernandez wrote:
Congress isn't trusted by the public. Ryan is especially untrustworthy.



Then you only have yourselves to blame, because all those Trump supporters voted for the same congress people they don't trust, including Ryan.
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