Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Please put all polls here.

Will Trump start and finish the wall along the southern border within his 4 years in office?

Yes
33
31%
No
66
62%
Only if he gets a second term
8
7%
 
Total votes: 107

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SilverDoge
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Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby SilverDoge » Fri Nov 11, 2016

What is the reasoning behind your vote?
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby MasterBlaster » Fri Nov 11, 2016

How else can we stop the flow with such a large border?
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby Brick's » Fri Nov 11, 2016

and make Mexico pay for it. This to create jobs and prove he can keep his campaign promises unlike his predecessors.

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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby Purple and Gold » Fri Nov 11, 2016

Didnt he say the wall would be 30' tall? :shock:
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby TTrav » Fri Nov 11, 2016

Doubtful. It'll cost too much an offer little benefit. We don't have a crazy number of immigrants crossing the border illegally (most illegal immigrants just overstay their visa) no to mention it would require quite a bit of land to be seized from private owners.


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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby Brucifer » Fri Nov 11, 2016

I doubt it’ll become reality. The cost would be enormous and the cost/benefit effect dubious. It’d be more effective and far cheaper to beef up and tighten up immigration regs, visa issuance/administration, etc. Talk of the wall was rhetoric to lure conservative/far right support and when I think of a border wall, the Maginot line (even though it wasn’t a physical wall) always comes to mind. Physical walls just aren’t practical. We can’t even stop the drug-runners from tunneling under the border now and a wall will just lead to improved tunneling technology. The Sinaloa Cartel would probably offer online tutorials.

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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby blackrabbit » Fri Nov 11, 2016

Forget a wall. Why not jut arrest and seize the businesses of those criminals who employ the illegal immigrants and undercut the businesses that actually follow the law? That kind of program would pay for itself and all the illegals would stop coming here with no prospects for employment.

Oh yeah, those business owners have power so lets just go after the powerless and let the powerful criminals get off the hook................somehow I don't think this is going to work.
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby CCC2010 » Fri Nov 11, 2016

Well he better do as he promises as that is one of the reasons folks voted for him .If he can't even build a wall how can he do the other things he promised? He said over and over and over again that The Wall will be built! The cost might be enormous but he is into constructing buildings right? I am sure he has his own company that can do the job and then some.I would say he will build the wall as to Mexico actually paying for it...let us see what happens next.
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby DoctorMetal » Fri Nov 11, 2016

I voted YES because I think he will build some of the wall, but not the full stretch, maybe a significant stretch, but most of it will be fences or other types of barriers. Border security theory is premised on the idea of boundaries or barriers, not walls. I'm more concerned with what type of wall Mexico itself will build to separate itself from Central America. Construction on Trump's part-wall will likely be delayed, and what we're most likely to see is a repeat of something like Operation Jump Start which militarizes the border.

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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby Brick's » Fri Nov 11, 2016

TTrav wrote:<snip> We don't have a crazy number of immigrants crossing the border illegally (most illegal immigrants just overstay their visa). <snip>


I beg to differ. Reposted from RC. Apologies in advance.

Between San Diego and LA there is a choke point as the costal mountains come close to the ocean near San Onofre. It is here on the 405 freeway there is a border patrol checkpoint (or at least there used to be). My wife and I spent a week-end camping at the San Onofre campgrounds on the bluffs overlooking the ocean. The camp grounds butt up against the railroad lines that lie between the freeway and the bluffs. So it's hills, freeway, rail lines, camp grounds, bluffs, beach, ocean.

We stayed thru Sunday night and observed hundreds of Latino aliens walk north on the beach, walk thru the campgrounds on old coast highway, ride the trains, get chased by the border patrol in vehicles up the 405 (one unloaded several in front of the freeway fence as we watched the border patrol pull up behind, Billy Club them off the fence, pull them down, and throw them in the back of the van,) and cross on the coastal hills from evening thru the late night en mass.

Estimates are from 11 to 20 million illegal aliens currently in the U.S., with from between 300,000 ('08 and '09) to 800,000 ('04 and '05) crossing yearly. We can project since times are better here in the U.S. now than they were during "The Recession" but, not as good as during '04/'05 the number of aliens currently crossing lie somewhere in between. So what's another hundred thousand per year?

I wouldn't call it a flood as we are already experiencing a flood for decades that cannot be stopped so long as times are better here than in Guatemala, Mexico, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, and Honduras. Maybe a large fire hose compared to a flood? And I'm not surprised that there is an increase in the number of teens crossing for as shatty as things are for teens in this country it has to be many times worse in the countries listed above.

"The children don't only travel because of poverty or reunification. In a recent study we have detected that another important theme is migration because of insecurity," said Julia Gonzalez, coordinator of the nonprofit National Bureau for Migration in Guatemala.

A study released in March by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees said about half of 400 kids interviewed reported they had experienced or been threatened with serious harm. About 300 of those interviewed were from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras — countries that accounted for about 90 percent of the children cared for by the Office of Refugee Resettlement last year. This from: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =318396194

El Norte is the dream. El Norte is the better life. El Norte is money to send back home or to use to start a business here.

One only has to look at the significant decrease in numbers during "The Recession" to know the movement of human beings across borders is mostly economically driven. Things are going to have to get a hell of a lot worse here to stop this flood. I know this sounds crazy but, fighting it doesn't and has not worked as we have decades of history and millions caught and reportedly deported and they still come. Perhaps it would be better to embrace it and work with it?

In all honesty, I don't really expect to see much change at all except for the increase in sensationalism and political mud slinging it is going to be used for. Smoke and mirrors and distractions to keep you from seeing what is really going on. A scape goat to give the people something else to focus on and vent rage on instead of the current unsustainable system and those controlling it.

That's how I see it.

Comments and other views encouraged. :)

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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby AirTractor » Fri Nov 11, 2016

Pretty sure it was a metaphorical wall the whole time. He wants to enforce the laws we have now a back the border patrol 100%. That alone would be a big change.
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby Bucketeer » Fri Nov 11, 2016

DoctorMetal wrote:I voted YES because I think he will build some of the wall, but not the full stretch, maybe a significant stretch, but most of it will be fences or other types of barriers. Border security theory is premised on the idea of boundaries or barriers, not walls. I'm more concerned with what type of wall Mexico itself will build to separate itself from Central America. Construction on Trump's part-wall will likely be delayed, and what we're most likely to see is a repeat of something like Operation Jump Start which militarizes the border.


+1

The Israeli border wall was built by a company called Magal Security Systems. It consists of "smart fences" that are equipped with video cameras, sensors, and satellite surveillance, plus a lot of physical concrete walls located around the major population areas. Their shares rose 6% on Wednesday, and they are looking to join forces with a major US defense company (they claim to have done this before and are eager to do it again).
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby Bucketeer » Fri Nov 11, 2016

Brick's wrote:and make Mexico pay for it. This to create jobs and prove he can keep his campaign promises unlike his predecessors.


Mexico will pay in one way or another. A good start would be a tax on money transfers - with a nod to Mr Perot, those weekly money transfers comprise a "loud sucking sound going south".
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby Bucketeer » Fri Nov 11, 2016

wjruth wrote:http://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engineer-explains-why-trumps-wall-is-so-implausible/
and a follow up
http://www.nationalmemo.com/trump-wises ... arge-wall/


Just one engineer's opinion - there are numerous other engineers who will tell you it can be easily built. Costly yes, but the reductions in crimes and the economic gains justify the cost.

The complexity of building a strong barrier on the border such as a border wall, or walls and fences pale in comparison to "really big projects" such as the Panama Canal and Hoover Dam.

Another plus - building the wall (whatever it turns out to be) will provide thousands of "shovel-ready" jobs that actually accomplish something of value. That never occurred with the results of Obama's stimulus package.
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby Bucketeer » Fri Nov 11, 2016

Brick's wrote:
TTrav wrote:<snip> We don't have a crazy number of immigrants crossing the border illegally (most illegal immigrants just overstay their visa). <snip>


I beg to differ. Reposted from RC. Apologies in advance.

Between San Diego and LA there is a choke point as the costal mountains come close to the ocean near San Onofre. It is here on the 405 freeway there is a border patrol checkpoint (or at least there used to be). My wife and I spent a week-end camping at the San Onofre campgrounds on the bluffs overlooking the ocean. The camp grounds butt up against the railroad lines that lie between the freeway and the bluffs. So it's hills, freeway, rail lines, camp grounds, bluffs, beach, ocean.

We stayed thru Sunday night and observed hundreds of Latino aliens walk north on the beach, walk thru the campgrounds on old coast highway, ride the trains, get chased by the border patrol in vehicles up the 405 (one unloaded several in front of the freeway fence as we watched the border patrol pull up behind, Billy Club them off the fence, pull them down, and throw them in the back of the van,) and cross on the coastal hills from evening thru the late night en mass.


I drove I-8 OTR for awhile in late 2000's between San Diego to Arizona. After sundown, you'd see all kinds of illegals crossing the highway. Border Security didn't have enough staff or resources to effectively deal with the problem
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby Silversummit » Fri Nov 11, 2016

Don't know if it is fact, but I did see a news article yesterday that said he has started building a panel of people to take on the task of a wall or stricter boarder control.

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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby xelint » Fri Nov 11, 2016

tomfernandez wrote:
Brick's wrote:and make Mexico pay for it. This to create jobs and prove he can keep his campaign promises unlike his predecessors.


Mexico will pay in one way or another. A good start would be a tax on money transfers - with a nod to Mr Perot, those weekly money transfers comprise a "loud sucking sound going south".


Tax is an interesting concept as it will decrease the amount of $$ going legally through banks and will just allow the drug cartels to get into the money laundering business more than they already are. Immigrants use the current banking system allowing banks to get their fees and make money because it is safe and secure but when the government gets involved and taxes the funds transfer then you always see a decrease in the use of the system

Mexico is out 2nd largest trading partner. Taxing and walls are going to hurt the free trade along the border and will cost more jobs as China is ready to swoop in and fill the need if the US makes life hard on Mexico have no mistake on that.

https://www.brookings.edu/events/a-complex-reality-security-trade-and-the-u-s-mexico-border/

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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby bigjohn » Fri Nov 11, 2016

CCC2010 wrote:Well he better do as he promises as that is one of the reasons folks voted for him .If he can't even build a wall how can he do the other things he promised? He said over and over and over again that The Wall will be built! The cost might be enormous but he is into constructing buildings right? I am sure he has his own company that can do the job and then some.I would say he will build the wall as to Mexico actually paying for it...let us see what happens next.

Throughout history, people lied about what they would do as president just to get the votes. I don't see this being any different. I don't think we will see the wall. He will follow through on some of his promises but only to a certain extent.
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Re: Will Trump start and finish the wall - POLL

Postby wolvesdad » Fri Nov 11, 2016

TTrav wrote:Doubtful. It'll cost too much an offer little benefit. We don't have a crazy number of immigrants crossing the border illegally (most illegal immigrants just overstay their visa) no to mention it would require quite a bit of land to be seized from private owners.


Not actually true about the number of crossers.

Very true about the land seizure issue.
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