Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Please put all polls here.

Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs to Break in to Terrorist's Phone?

Yes
13
16%
No
66
84%
 
Total votes: 79

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jcz1
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Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby jcz1 » Wed Feb 24, 2016

Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs to Break in to Terrorist's Phone?
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tdtwedt
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby tdtwedt » Wed Feb 24, 2016

jcz1 wrote:Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs to Break in to Terrorist's Phone?


Absolutely not. FBI just wants a way to search everyone's phone without a search warrant and use the information as they please.

Good article on zerohedge.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-2 ... oor-iphone
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jcz1
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby jcz1 » Wed Feb 24, 2016

tdtwedt wrote:
jcz1 wrote:Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs to Break in to Terrorist's Phone?


Absolutely not. FBI just wants a way to search everyone's phone without a search warrant and use the information as they please.

Good article on zerohedge.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-2 ... oor-iphone


Doesn't this software require physical access to the phone?

Personally, I wouldn't want to store anything confidential on a phone anyway. The worst thing on mine is email, and we all know that's not safe anyway, on a phone or elsewhere.
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SilverGOP
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby SilverGOP » Wed Feb 24, 2016

It's why my POJ cell is an old tracphone with no fancies.

Weren't the obamaphones apples?

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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby tdtwedt » Wed Feb 24, 2016

jcz1 wrote:
tdtwedt wrote:
jcz1 wrote:Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs to Break in to Terrorist's Phone?


Absolutely not. FBI just wants a way to search everyone's phone without a search warrant and use the information as they please.

Good article on zerohedge.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-2 ... oor-iphone


Doesn't this software require physical access to the phone?

Personally, I wouldn't want to store anything confidential on a phone anyway. The worst thing on mine is email, and we all know that's not safe anyway, on a phone or elsewhere.



The FBI/NSA etc can hack into any device remotely and can get around a password if they have a backdoor.
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby Engineer » Wed Feb 24, 2016

The court order specifies that there can be "no time limit" between password requests.

Given the time they've already spent on this case, the matter obviously isn't urgent, so why do they demand (not need) a tool which will open a phone in 15 seconds rather than a couple days?

The best answer I can think of: They want to be able to break into phones at will, and be fast enough to do so while a suspect is taking a bathroom break.
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby tdtwedt » Wed Feb 24, 2016

Engineer wrote:The court order specifies that there can be "no time limit" between password requests.

Given the time they've already spent on this case, the matter obviously isn't urgent, so why do they demand (not need) a tool which will open a phone in 15 seconds rather than a couple days?

The best answer I can think of: They want to be able to break into phones at will, and be fast enough to do so while a suspect is taking a bathroom break.



If they have a backdoor then they will not need a search warrant.
This is the reason they want the software backdoor. What is to stop them from using the backdoor on everyday citizens.
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Engineer
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby Engineer » Wed Feb 24, 2016

tdtwedt wrote:
Engineer wrote:The court order specifies that there can be "no time limit" between password requests.

Given the time they've already spent on this case, the matter obviously isn't urgent, so why do they demand (not need) a tool which will open a phone in 15 seconds rather than a couple days?

The best answer I can think of: They want to be able to break into phones at will, and be fast enough to do so while a suspect is taking a bathroom break.



If they have a backdoor then they will not need a search warrant.
This is the reason they want the software backdoor. What is to stop them from using the backdoor on everyday citizens.


Exactly...and it isn't just the FBI. Every PD in the nation would love to have that capability, and many (most?) would misuse it

A suggestion I laughed at yesterday was for Apple to treat the matter like the FBI treats a FOIA request. Demand an extortionate fee up front, then take three years to deliver the requested materials (by which time it would be obsolete).
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby mnymgr1 » Wed Feb 24, 2016

does anyone here actually believe that the NSA can't already hack just about anything on the planet ? they are doing this publicly to not worry the citizens of their abilities but my guess is they already know exactly what is on this phone. hell, there are probably teens able to crack much of the worlds devices, you'd hope with billions thrown at them that the NSA could do it by now :turtle:
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby SilverGOP » Thu Feb 25, 2016

mnymgr1 wrote:does anyone here actually believe that the NSA can't already hack just about anything on the planet ? they are doing this publicly to not worry the citizens of their abilities but my guess is they already know exactly what is on this phone. hell, there are probably teens able to crack much of the worlds devices, you'd hope with billions thrown at them that the NSA could do it by now :turtle:


I'm pretty sure No Such Agency has let absolutely NO grass grow under their feet along the line of being able to do pretty much what they want regarding monitoring anything electronic. Encryption... I don't know, save that it'd be an odd nation indeed that freely allowed public access to encryption that their own security services were unable to crack.

I get more crackles, pops and snaps than a warehouse full of Rice Krispies; I'm relatively certain I'm being monitored. Ex-Army, ex-intel, registered Republican, NRA member... any two of those would have got me on the regime's unofficial official enemies' list to be monitored. Shucks, I'm surprised I haven't been hauled away yet.
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby db23 » Thu Feb 25, 2016

jcz1 wrote:Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs to Break in to Terrorist's Phone?

Let's not kid ourselves here, Apple already has the necessary software / backdoor to crack their own phones, it's a matter of should they share it with the FBI...

I bet if anyone here or their friends or family were impacted by the terrorists actions they'd be saying yes...

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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby OmahaHL » Thu Feb 25, 2016

They should have to get a search warrant. If there is information leading to another cell or group the government should know. Just download this guys information and put it in a zip file and turn it over.

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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby MrGaribaldi » Thu Feb 25, 2016

tdtwedt wrote:
jcz1 wrote:Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs to Break in to Terrorist's Phone?


The FBI just wants a way to search everyone's phone without a search warrant and use the information as they please.


The FBI doesn't need an iphone hack to get your info; they already have your Facebook page. :lol:

Simple way to get around Apple is to offer a $1 million bounty to the hacker who can do the deed. I'm sure there's a Ruskie somewhere in need of money.

All kidding aside, it's a slippery slope.

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tdtwedt
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby tdtwedt » Thu Feb 25, 2016

db23 wrote:
jcz1 wrote:Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs to Break in to Terrorist's Phone?



I bet if anyone here or their friends or family were impacted by the terrorists actions they'd be saying yes...



Isn't this the same argument that the anti-gun crowd makes....

I bet if anyone here or their friends or family were impacted by the terrorists actions a gun crime they'd be saying yes...to banning guns



Being a victim of a gun crime is even more common than being a victim of terrorism.
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby thaweatherman » Thu Feb 25, 2016

Security worker here. Apple used to have this functionality. They then completely removed it from their software. FBI wants them to build a custom OS with the "backdoor" built in so they can drop it on the phone. This requires lots of resources. Apple may actually care about privacy and whatnot but really they're just saving themselves money. Also, it isn't really a backdoor. The patch would just remove the time limit between failed password guesses, thus making it easier to crack. Essentially if you have a strong password then it doesn't particularly matter.

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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby Engineer » Thu Feb 25, 2016

db23 wrote:I bet if anyone here or their friends or family were impacted by the terrorists actions they'd be saying yes...


That depends on which part of the family. :pop:

The FBI already had access to the data on this phone via iCloud, but lost it either through incompetence or purposely in order to have grounds to sue for a back door. As they've already been caught in a couple lies, I tend to believe the latter.

I'm also a bit suspicious as to why has the FBI waited for a "terror" case to make this effort. It has a whiff of patriot act to it...
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby MaxGravy » Thu Feb 25, 2016

Seems like they could disassemble the phone, hot-wire the memory and decrypt it. Is this not technically possible?
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby InfleXion » Thu Feb 25, 2016

MaxGravy wrote:Seems like they could disassemble the phone, hot-wire the memory and decrypt it. Is this not technically possible?

My thoughts exactly. I'd be shocked if they didn't have a way to pull out the hard drive and mount it into some adapter to read the bytes off it, with or without cracking the software on the phone. Even if it's encrypted, if they wrote the encryption algorithms then they'll know how to reverse it.
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby silverbender » Thu Feb 25, 2016

MaxGravy wrote:Seems like they could disassemble the phone, hot-wire the memory and decrypt it. Is this not technically possible?
Mcafee is offering to do this which is not hacking but disassembling the phone. It requires the phone and a few weeks in a lab,but the F.B.I. does not seem to be responding to his offer to do it for free.The debate is fraught with fear and dis information.They should have this capacity themselves if they were not just pretending to be competent or more likely lazy and or lying. They changed the password so that it could no longer sync and back up from the cloud which they could have Googled
Last edited by silverbender on Thu Feb 25, 2016, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby thaweatherman » Thu Feb 25, 2016

InfleXion wrote:
MaxGravy wrote:Seems like they could disassemble the phone, hot-wire the memory and decrypt it. Is this not technically possible?

My thoughts exactly. I'd be shocked if they didn't have a way to pull out the hard drive and mount it into some adapter to read the bytes off it, with or without cracking the software on the phone. Even if it's encrypted, if they wrote the encryption algorithms then they'll know how to reverse it.

That's not how encryption works. You can't just reverse it without the password. The FBI wants to be able to brute force the password without hinderances Apple has in place.


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