Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Please put all polls here.

Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs to Break in to Terrorist's Phone?

Yes
16
18%
No
72
82%
 
Total votes: 88

Recluse
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby Recluse » Mon Apr 18, 2016

So what exactly did the FBI actually accomplish? Did they circumvent the self destruct feature AND then brute force the password?

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TTrav
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby TTrav » Mon Apr 18, 2016

Recluse wrote:So what exactly did the FBI actually accomplish? Did they circumvent the self destruct feature AND then brute force the password?

Nothing. This wasn't about getting into his iphone. It was his work phone. He intentionally destroyed this computer and his and his wifes primary phone. This was a work device with nothing on it. It was a fishing expedition to try to set a legal precedent or to bully Apple into weakening encryption.

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jcz1
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby jcz1 » Sun Nov 19, 2017

Yes, I know this thread is over 18 months old, but here we go again, this time it's about the Texas church shooter:

The San Antonio Express-News has learned that Texas Rangers served Apple warrants for data on both the perpetrator's iPhone SE and a basic LG cellphone. In the case of the iPhone, the state law enforcement unit wants access to both local and iCloud info (such as calls, messages and photos) produced since January 1st, 2016.
...
The Rangers' warrant puts Apple in a difficult position. Although at least some iCloud data is accessible with a warrant, the iPhone itself is another issue. Police missed their opportunity to use the shooter's fingerprint to unlock the phone without a passcode, and the nature of iOS' encryption makes it very difficult for Apple and anyone else to access locked-down data. In the case of the San Bernardino attack, the FBI paid security experts at Cellebrite to get to a shooter's files. Apple may once again be faced with a situation where it can't fully comply with data requests.


https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/19/tex ... hone-data/
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joefro
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby joefro » Sun Nov 19, 2017

Absolutely not. If the FBI gets the software, then all of the other agencies will get it too. Someone will leak/hack the software and then it will be spread worldwide, and then we might as well not even have the encryption on the phones. The bottom line is you just cant trust the government to protect that kind of software, or use it honorably.

The method they can already use to open the phones doesnt require disassembling the phone. They can clone the phone while it is encrypted, and then try all possible password combinations on the clones. If they try too many bad passwords and the phone info self-deletes or locks out the user permanently, they just make a new clone and keep trying until they get the correct password, which they then use to unlock the original phone. This is how the "3rd party" supposedly helped them unlock one of the previous phones. Using this method you could have the phone unlocked in under a day easily, as long as you are willing to throw enough resources at it.

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tdtwedt
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby tdtwedt » Sun Nov 19, 2017

jcz1 wrote:Yes, I know this thread is over 18 months old, but here we go again, this time it's about the Texas church shooter:

The San Antonio Express-News has learned that Texas Rangers served Apple warrants for data on both the perpetrator's iPhone SE and a basic LG cellphone. In the case of the iPhone, the state law enforcement unit wants access to both local and iCloud info (such as calls, messages and photos) produced since January 1st, 2016.
...
The Rangers' warrant puts Apple in a difficult position. Although at least some iCloud data is accessible with a warrant, the iPhone itself is another issue. Police missed their opportunity to use the shooter's fingerprint to unlock the phone without a passcode, and the nature of iOS' encryption makes it very difficult for Apple and anyone else to access locked-down data. In the case of the San Bernardino attack, the FBI paid security experts at Cellebrite to get to a shooter's files. Apple may once again be faced with a situation where it can't fully comply with data requests.


https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/19/tex ... hone-data/


The FBI dropped a lawsuit against Apple after they hacked the San Bernardino phone. Maybe they were afraid they would lose in court. What the FBI really wants is a way to look at all phones without a warrant which is what the Supreme Court said they needed to do.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/29/tech ... -case.html
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Rik Bitter
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby Rik Bitter » Sun Nov 19, 2017

Personally I say hell no.

However, Apple is a business and it should do whatever will attract the most customers. (Hey Apple, I'm a customer)
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natsb88
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby natsb88 » Sun Nov 19, 2017

joefro wrote:Absolutely not. If the FBI gets the software, then all of the other agencies will get it too. Someone will leak/hack the software and then it will be spread worldwide, and then we might as well not even have the encryption on the phones. The bottom line is you just cant trust the government to protect that kind of software, or use it honorably.

Yep. Backdoors and hacking tools developed by the government or for the government will eventually make their way into the wrong hands and be used to extort, exploit, or steal from innocent victims. It's already happening. The Shadow Brokers keep leaking NSA hacking tools. Over a year after the initial TSB leak and the NSA is still tearing itself apart trying to figure out who leaked the tools and/or how they were hacked and stolen. Hundreds of thousands of machines were infected with ransomwear and backdoors within days of the initial leak.

Our government doesn't have a very good track record of keeping dangerous things out of the wrong hands. The government lost track of over $1,000,000,000 worth of equipment in Iraq, including Humvees and RPGs. The government doesn't have a good track record of even keeping relatively inane things out of the wrong hands. The Pentagon can't account for $6,500,000,000,000 in general fund transactions. And look at how much information Snowden was able to walk out the door with. And he arguably did it for the right reasons, not just to sell it to the highest bidder.

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jcz1
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby jcz1 » Tue Jan 09, 2018

FBI chief calls encryption a ‘major public safety issue’

FBI Director Christopher A. Wray on Tuesday renewed a call for tech companies to help law enforcement officials gain access to encrypted smartphones, describing it as a “major public safety issue.”

Wray said the bureau was unable to gain access to the content of 7,775 devices in fiscal 2017 — more than half of all the smartphones it tried to crack in that time period — despite having a warrant from a judge.

“Being unable to access nearly 7,800 devices in a single year is a major public safety issue,” he said, taking up a theme that was a signature issue of his predecessor, James B. Comey.

“We’re not interested in the millions of devices of everyday citizens,” he said in New York at Fordham University’s International Conference on Cyber Security. “We’re interested in those devices that have been used to plan or execute terrorist or criminal activities.”

He said: “We need to work together, the government and the private sector, to find a way forward, and find a way forward quickly.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... 82255b5420
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DRP270
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Re: Should Apple Build the Software the FBI Needs?

Postby DRP270 » Tue Jan 09, 2018

“We’re not interested in the millions of devices of everyday citizens,”

Yet that would be exactly what they have access to.
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