Coal is dead

AKA Bar and Grill - General Discussion of any topics, does not need to be related to metal trading.
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Mechanic4hire3
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Re: Coal is dead

Postby Mechanic4hire3 » Fri May 18, 2018

iron-pyrite wrote:
DRP270 wrote:I have had a number of birds die because they they flew into range while I was shooting my shotgun. Go figure.



I've had a similar problem with Islamic natives in the middle east while shooting a 50 Cal machine gun. They said "if God wills it" but eventually agreed that if they keep doing it, God will more likely will it than if they don't.

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Re: Coal is dead

Postby Purple and Gold » Fri May 18, 2018

iron-pyrite wrote:I've had a similar problem with Islamic natives in the middle east while shooting a 50 Cal machine gun. They said "if God wills it" but eventually agreed that if they keep doing it, God will more likely will it than if they don't.


A 50 caliber? :shock: They should put this on Pay per View
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everything
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Re: Coal is dead

Postby everything » Tue May 22, 2018

Check out this monster, one wind tower powering 16,000 households!
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/wo ... ncna853596

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xelint
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Re: Coal is dead

Postby xelint » Tue May 22, 2018

everything wrote:Check out this monster, one wind tower powering 16,000 households!
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/wo ... ncna853596


Thanks. Good article.

Was wondering why they are going fewer bigger wind turbines vs. more smaller but looks like the install time and maintenance cost are the driving issues. Also longer blades produce more energy with higher efficiency.
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Re: Coal is dead

Postby jcz1 » Sat Jun 02, 2018

Trump continues to try to make the title of this thread untrue:

On Friday, citing national security, Trump ordered the Energy Department to compel power-grid operators to buy from ailing coal and nuclear plants that otherwise would be forced to shut down because of competition from cheaper sources.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... ab37733ed6

Everyone knows he campaigned on saving coal - I don't remember any talk about nuclear plants.

The one upside to this: it has to be helping the legal profession, with all the lawsuits it is sure to draw.

Also, remember the good ol' days, when the GOP was a champion for the free market? :roll:

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Re: Coal is dead

Postby fredzoyt » Sat Jun 02, 2018

MaxGravy wrote:Birds are descended from dinosaurs. They've mastered this planet for tens of millions of years. I'm not too concerned about a few fans. Smart birds that don't fly into spinning blades will live and reproduce. And verse visey.


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Re: Coal is dead

Postby Ericson Mint » Sun Jun 03, 2018

rktect wrote:But what about all the dead birds?


My day job is with DTE Energy - I think it's about the 7th largest electric utility in the states. The company is making a lot of moves in transitioning away from coal (shutting down 3 more coal fired plants within the next 5 years). Some of this load is going to be backfilled by renewables, but given Michigan weather much is going to be replaced by gas fired plants. Wind energy makes the most sense for the company right now and we need to hit 25% renewable energy by 2030, so we have a lot of projects going on in the area. The bird problem isn't as big of a deal as some make it out to be. To give an idea of the scope of the problem, the 2015 article I linked below states that as many as 368,000 birds are killed by wind turbines every year. I'll admit this sounds like a lot at first, but when you consider that close to 1 Billion birds are killed by flying into windows every year, it's pretty unfair to blame wind farms. The larger issue is actually bats, white nose syndrome (fungus that irritates and wakes bats up from hibernation prematurely) has been killing millions of bats in the states. WTGs are responsible for far fewer bat deaths, but because of the already strained number that is the larger concern when considering new wind developments. Happy to provide more sources if needed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... p/21358155
Last edited by Ericson Mint on Sun Jun 03, 2018, edited 2 times in total.
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Rik Bitter
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Re: Coal is dead

Postby Rik Bitter » Sun Jun 03, 2018

Ericson Mint wrote:...

Some of this load is going to be backfilled by renewables, but givin Michigan weather much is going to be replaced by gas fired plants. Wind energy makes the most sense for the company right now and we need to hit 25% renewable energy by 2030, so we have a lot of projects going on in the area.


This is the real reason coal is dead. A BTU rich source of energy that is readily available is being dumped not because the market demands it, but because the government has put it's thumb on the scale and ruled by fiat that it must be abandoned.

Sounds familiar doesn't it. Kinda like what they did with real money back in the day.
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Diggin4copper
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Re: Coal is dead

Postby Diggin4copper » Sun Jun 03, 2018

1,000 million? That’s a billion, right?
Outstanding!

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SilverStatic
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Re: Coal is dead

Postby SilverStatic » Sun Jun 03, 2018

Diggin4copper wrote:1,000 million? That’s a billion, right?


Sounds crazy but I guess true:
“Between 365 and 988 million birds die from crashing into windows in the United States each year.”

But also:
“Cats kill more than one billion birds each year”
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Ericson Mint
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Re: Coal is dead

Postby Ericson Mint » Sun Jun 03, 2018

Diggin4copper wrote:1,000 million? That’s a billion, right?

Yes :oops: that number is on the high end of the estimate as well according to the article SilverStatic was referring to. Either way, windows are causing many more bird deaths then the wind turbines.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... 04bca12c64
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Re: Coal is dead

Postby MaryB » Sun Jun 03, 2018

Bird death studies many quote were from the dark ages of wind energy and the lattice towers used in the CA mountain passes. They attracted birds because they make good nesting sites. The new tubular tower design stops this. I know they did a study on Buffalo Ridge near me in MN and found that bird deaths were pretty minimal. Bat deaths were the bigger issue but bats here are not that endangered.


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