GOLD vs BITCOIN

Discussion of all things crypto and blockchain.
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SilverDoge
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Wed Dec 06, 2017

Rodebaugh wrote:Nothing wrong with taking a little profit off the table. Nice work and congrats. Let the other ride a bit and repeat I presume.


Thanks. Had I waited about 3 hours I could have got MS-63 St Gauden's, instead of ungraded. :lol:

Now we ride until 50:1. :thumbup:
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b4/Vj()z
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby b4/Vj()z » Wed Dec 06, 2017

"Unfortunately, there has been a security breach involving NiceHash website... our payment system was compromised and the contents of the NiceHash Bitcoin wallet have been stolen"

Only $50 million stolen; what's the big upset over?
Place your bets, suckers
:thumbdown:
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SilverDoge
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Wed Dec 06, 2017

b4/Vj()z wrote:"Unfortunately, there has been a security breach involving NiceHash website... our payment system was compromised and the contents of the NiceHash Bitcoin wallet have been stolen"

Only $50 million stolen; what's the big upset over?
Place your bets, suckers
:thumbdown:


Actually it was $62 million stolen. This is a lesson (yet again) about not controlling your own crypto & private keys. It the PM world, it would be equivalent to giving your alcoholic neighbor your gold stack and asking him to invest it for you for some solid returns each year. Getting ripped off is a great lesson in life though. People either learn from their mistakes or go broke.

Let me ask this, if we were to go back to a monetary gold standard - would you outsource the security of your gold or would you secure your own gold and take responsibility for it? Crypto requires you to take responsibility because nobody will bail you out when you give a third party your wealth.
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b4/Vj()z
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby b4/Vj()z » Wed Dec 06, 2017

:thumbup: :thumbup: :clap: :clap:
Fine article and thank you for the correction of my number!
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Long John
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Long John » Thu Dec 07, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:10 ounces of gold coins now coming to me for the steep price of 1 bitcoin.

Somebody want to try to tell SilverDoge that Bitcoin has no value? Anyone?

SilverDoge wrote:I really don't want this to come off as bragging...

Why the hell not? :clap:

SilverDoge wrote:I might look stupid in 2 weeks if/when the futures markets take bitcoin to $20k - but I would be fine with that happening too.

That's the attitude I try to take. I cashed out some BTC for urgent dental work, and it's almost doubled in the weeks since then. When that happens I remind myself of what Bitcoin cost when I got on this rocket, what it cost when I traded most of my alts into it, and the sum total of fiat I put in. I feel better instantly.

I tell you, that 10 oz is very tempting. Or is it 11 now. Saints, were they? Was there much premium?

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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Bucketeer » Thu Dec 07, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:
b4/Vj()z wrote:"Unfortunately, there has been a security breach involving NiceHash website... our payment system was compromised and the contents of the NiceHash Bitcoin wallet have been stolen"

Only $50 million stolen; what's the big upset over?
Place your bets, suckers
:thumbdown:


This is a lesson (yet again) about not controlling your own crypto & private keys. It the PM world, it would be equivalent to giving your alcoholic neighbor your gold stack and asking him to invest it for you for some solid returns each year..


Quit talking about me :thumbup:
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SilverDoge
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Thu Dec 07, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:Never doubt a Bear who is a Long Bull that bought something.

It is all or nothing if a Bear buys in. We buy it to own it forever. Heaven or H#ll.


Bucketeer wrote:Quit talking about me :thumbup:


I shall not ;) It is hard to keep track of whether you are a bull or a bear today :lol:
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SilverDoge
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Thu Dec 07, 2017

Long John wrote:That's the attitude I try to take. I cashed out some BTC for urgent dental work, and it's almost doubled in the weeks since then. When that happens I remind myself of what Bitcoin cost when I got on this rocket, what it cost when I traded most of my alts into it, and the sum total of fiat I put in. I feel better instantly.

I tell you, that 10 oz is very tempting. Or is it 11 now. Saints, were they? Was there much premium?


AU Saints, random date. Premium was acceptable, not too bad.

I like my Saints beautiful, but still like to hold them. I find AU to be just about right for this endeavor. Once they are slabbed you don't get the touch, and if they are truly BU then I might be too cautious about handling. That's my theory anyway.
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Bucketeer
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Bucketeer » Thu Dec 07, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:
Bucketeer wrote:Never doubt a Bear who is a Long Bull that bought something.

It is all or nothing if a Bear buys in. We buy it to own it forever. Heaven or H#ll.


Bucketeer wrote:Quit talking about me :thumbup:


I shall not ;) It is hard to keep track of whether you are a bull or a bear today :lol:


+1 - Just my Bipolar in play. Thanx Bro. :thumbup:
Gentlemen prefer Engelhard.

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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Rodebaugh » Thu Dec 07, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:
Rodebaugh wrote:Nothing wrong with taking a little profit off the table. Nice work and congrats. Let the other ride a bit and repeat I presume.


Thanks. Had I waited about 3 hours I could have got MS-63 St Gauden's, instead of ungraded. :lol:

Now we ride until 50:1. :thumbup:


Likely by Friday of next week until your next conversion. My goodness. :shock:

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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby dbm300 » Thu Dec 07, 2017

Now mind you I have less than 1 bitcoin but yesterday it was 12,700 and this morning it is 15,600. Holy crap. I have never seen anything move as fast as this. I don't know if I should get on the train or just stand back and watch the crash. Either way I am sure it will be an interesting show.
... and Bob's your uncle.

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SilverDoge
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Thu Dec 07, 2017

God bless you Ron Paul. And who are the voters favoring 10-year T-bills or (worse) FRN's?

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Long John
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Long John » Thu Dec 07, 2017

Just touched $16,000 on GDAX. Bitcoin will buy 12.77 troy ounces of gold. This is officially nuts. OK, we don't like the term "bubble" so how about balloon. Something has to give. But every day the floor it might crash to gets higher and higher.

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SilverDoge
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Thu Dec 07, 2017

Long John wrote:Bitcoin will buy 12.77 troy ounces of gold.


Now you're just clowning me, aren't you! :lol:

The question becomes, once it hits 50:1, should I sell a whole bitcoin for 50 ounces of gold, or just do another 10 coins for 0.2 BTC? Surely I"ll have to wait until 2018, right?
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Long John
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Long John » Thu Dec 07, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:
Long John wrote:Bitcoin will buy 12.77 troy ounces of gold.


Now you're just clowning me, aren't you! :lol:

Ahh, no, not intentionally, though I see why it would be read that way. Feel free to remind me that I have sold Bitcoin at prices that look like a pittance now. :lol:

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Long John
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Long John » Thu Dec 07, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:
b4/Vj()z wrote:"Unfortunately, there has been a security breach involving NiceHash website... our payment system was compromised and the contents of the NiceHash Bitcoin wallet have been stolen"

Only $50 million stolen; what's the big upset over? Place your bets, suckers :thumbdown:


Actually it was $62 million stolen. This is a lesson (yet again) about not controlling your own crypto & private keys. It the PM world, it would be equivalent to giving your alcoholic neighbor your gold stack and asking him to invest it for you for some solid returns each year. Getting ripped off is a great lesson in life though. People either learn from their mistakes or go broke.

Just getting caught up on this. You know, when an exchange or wallet provider claims they were hacked and millions of dollars in Bitcoin or other crypto is missing, I am immediately suspicious. Missing, or moved to another untraceable location? Aside from the real danger of hackers, there is also the real danger of fraud. This is very much an honor system. Whether the hack is real or staged, there is no recourse for customers if the service covers the loss by reducing their balances. With the exception of U.S.-based Coinbase/GDAX, there is no federal insurance (and I'm not even sure if it covers the exchange side).

I have cashed out the BTC I held on GDAX, all of it, and moved the cash to my bank account. Until recently that would mean a delay of several days in getting the money back to where I could react to a price drop. But now bank transfers are credited instantly, which means (I have not tried this yet) I can essentially buy Bitcoin (or Ether or Litecoin) direct from my federally insured bank account. That offers some peace of mind for the money I still regard as being "Bitcoin money." I even have a subdivided account for it, to keep it separate from other money.

Even more peace of mind is the wallet that guards my reserve offline holdings. It isn't much, but with Bitcoin suddenly over $16,000, "not much" has quickly become "much" for a little fish like me. I need to keep that safe.

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SilverDoge
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Fri Dec 08, 2017

Another positive point, when you pay in bitcoin with APMEX they ship next day. To get the best prices, one needs to pay by check, wire, or bitcoin. A wire takes time and effort, and usually a fee. Normally I would pay with check to get the best prices, but then it takes about 10 days or so to ship. The check takes 2-3 days to get there, then they wait a week for the check to clear. There is no "clearing" with bitcoin. Once it is on the blockchain and transactions are confirmed the payment is made with no risk of a charge-back to the vendor.
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Fri Dec 08, 2017

Venezuela is the modern day fiat canary in the coal mine. For those who believe that inflation/hyperinflation will be a problem in the country you live in, bitcoin was a perfect test case for that future. So having a position in gold and bitcoin is the wise hedge play.
The Venezuelan government has destroyed the value of the nation's currency, the bolivar, which traded at roughly 10 to 1 US dollar as recently as late 2012, when bitcoin was roughly $10.

The black market exchange is now over 98,000 bolivars to the US dollar, and one bitcoin is now worth over 1 billion bolivars. Clearly, bitcoin has acted as a store of value. The resident of Venezuela who traded 100 bolivars for $10 and traded the $10 for one bitcoin how has 1 billion bolivars or $13,000 US dollars.

Clearly, bitcoin is a means of exchange, a legal form of capital that accrues taxable capital gains and it's a store of value. So by the conventional definition of money, bitcoin is money. It's our right to think it a nonsensical form of money, but our mockery doesn't change the functionality of it.

Good ideas don't require force. That describes the Internet, mobile telephony and cryptocurrencies.

Bad ideas require force: that describes the Venezuelan government's management of its currency, and the central bank/central state form of money that dominates the global economy.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-07/what-money-yes-were-talking-about-bitcoin
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Recluse » Fri Dec 08, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:Another positive point, when you pay in bitcoin with APMEX they ship next day.


Regarding payment with bitcoin, do you suppose it is considered a "cash equivalent" and subject to Apmex filing Form 8300 for transactions over $10000? Of course I am not suggesting that someone might forget to report a windfall from bitcoin :D

Edit: just to be clear I did not buy any. My attempt to buy 2@$800 through coinbase was such a mess I considered it a bad omen and backed out :x
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SilverDoge
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Fri Dec 08, 2017

Recluse wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:Another positive point, when you pay in bitcoin with APMEX they ship next day.


Regarding payment with bitcoin, do you suppose it is considered a "cash equivalent" and subject to Apmex filing Form 8300 for transactions over $10000? Of course I am not suggesting that someone might forget to report a windfall from bitcoin :D


I have no clue how APMEX is handling it. The IRS has deemed bitcoin property (commodity) so I don't know how they could call that a "cash equivalent" when they won't deem it a "real" currency. Would buying gold with fine art be considered a cash equivalent?

This was my largest single purchase of PMs. I have an accountant who will do my taxes for me as well.
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