GOLD vs BITCOIN

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rahbii
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby rahbii » Sat Jun 03, 2017

fredzoyt wrote:What are the good BC wallets you guys in the know would recommend? Which one(s) do you use?

Is this a good article:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bitcoin-wallet-options-1330928976/

Dave

Exodus wallet if you don't have a keepkey

https://www.exodus.io/releases/
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SilverDoge
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Fri Aug 04, 2017

Here is a long article over at SilverDoctors claiming to "shred bitcoin fanboys" filled with so many holes that it would take me 2 hours to refute it all.

http://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/8-ways-to-shred-a-bitcoin-fanboy-to-bits-and-pieces/

What is interesting, is that either the actual author or SilverDoctors won't even attribute the author to the piece! Is that because it would be yet another article going onto the Bitcoin Obituaries list? Hmmm? The author is Half Dollar - whoever that is. I've addressed nearly every silly and decent objection in this article.
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Bucketeer
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Bucketeer » Fri Aug 04, 2017

Yeah, that SD Shred Fanboys article was ridiculous.
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby AMulls » Thu Sep 14, 2017

I've been trying to learn as much as I can about Bitcoin over the last week or so. I think I have a very rudimentary understanding of how it works.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "verification" that happens with a transaction, which keeps it decentralized, is done by miners of Bitcoin. As an incentive for the verification of the transactions, the miners are awarded Bitcoin. Makes sense and keeps everyone honest.

Here's my question. What happens when the finite cap on Bitcoin is reached? The miners are no longer rewarded, so who will be there to verify transactions? And why would they continue to do so without some compensation or reward? Will transactions then have a transaction cost? To pay the verifiers for their time?

I know that the timeline is way far away, but just something that I wondered about. Of course, I could be completely wrong in my understanding and my question has no real reasoning to it.

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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Silverkid » Thu Sep 14, 2017

AMulls wrote:I've been trying to learn as much as I can about Bitcoin over the last week or so. I think I have a very rudimentary understanding of how it works.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "verification" that happens with a transaction, which keeps it decentralized, is done by miners of Bitcoin. As an incentive for the verification of the transactions, the miners are awarded Bitcoin. Makes sense and keeps everyone honest.

Here's my question. What happens when the finite cap on Bitcoin is reached? The miners are no longer rewarded, so who will be there to verify transactions? And why would they continue to do so without some compensation or reward? Will transactions then have a transaction cost? To pay the verifiers for their time?

I know that the timeline is way far away, but just something that I wondered about. Of course, I could be completely wrong in my understanding and my question has no real reasoning to it.


This is my biggest issue so far with Bitcoin.
Anyone?
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby cmiller17363 » Thu Sep 14, 2017

Silverkid wrote:
AMulls wrote:I've been trying to learn as much as I can about Bitcoin over the last week or so. I think I have a very rudimentary understanding of how it works.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "verification" that happens with a transaction, which keeps it decentralized, is done by miners of Bitcoin. As an incentive for the verification of the transactions, the miners are awarded Bitcoin. Makes sense and keeps everyone honest.

Here's my question. What happens when the finite cap on Bitcoin is reached? The miners are no longer rewarded, so who will be there to verify transactions? And why would they continue to do so without some compensation or reward? Will transactions then have a transaction cost? To pay the verifiers for their time?

I know that the timeline is way far away, but just something that I wondered about. Of course, I could be completely wrong in my understanding and my question has no real reasoning to it.


This is my biggest issue so far with Bitcoin.
Anyone?

Aren't there already transaction costs? This is why people are throwing extra coin (hah) at the miners to prioritize their transactions over others, isn't it?
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby silverpv » Thu Sep 14, 2017

Silverkid wrote:
AMulls wrote:I've been trying to learn as much as I can about Bitcoin over the last week or so. I think I have a very rudimentary understanding of how it works.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "verification" that happens with a transaction, which keeps it decentralized, is done by miners of Bitcoin. As an incentive for the verification of the transactions, the miners are awarded Bitcoin. Makes sense and keeps everyone honest.

Here's my question. What happens when the finite cap on Bitcoin is reached? The miners are no longer rewarded, so who will be there to verify transactions? And why would they continue to do so without some compensation or reward? Will transactions then have a transaction cost? To pay the verifiers for their time?

I know that the timeline is way far away, but just something that I wondered about. Of course, I could be completely wrong in my understanding and my question has no real reasoning to it.


This is my biggest issue so far with Bitcoin.
Anyone?



The difficulty rate will drop over time. Then it just becomes a validation network. By 2040ish is when 99% of the coins will be mined, so its pretty far away before we get to the last ones.

I will say, i'm finding it more difficult to liquidate silver @ spot, than i am bitcoin at spot right now. No one wants to buy silver!

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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Thu Sep 14, 2017

silverpv wrote:
Silverkid wrote:
AMulls wrote:I've been trying to learn as much as I can about Bitcoin over the last week or so. I think I have a very rudimentary understanding of how it works.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "verification" that happens with a transaction, which keeps it decentralized, is done by miners of Bitcoin. As an incentive for the verification of the transactions, the miners are awarded Bitcoin. Makes sense and keeps everyone honest.

Here's my question. What happens when the finite cap on Bitcoin is reached? The miners are no longer rewarded, so who will be there to verify transactions? And why would they continue to do so without some compensation or reward? Will transactions then have a transaction cost? To pay the verifiers for their time?

I know that the timeline is way far away, but just something that I wondered about. Of course, I could be completely wrong in my understanding and my question has no real reasoning to it.


This is my biggest issue so far with Bitcoin.
Anyone?



The difficulty rate will drop over time. Then it just becomes a validation network. By 2040ish is when 99% of the coins will be mined, so its pretty far away before we get to the last ones.

I will say, i'm finding it more difficult to liquidate silver @ spot, than i am bitcoin at spot right now. No one wants to buy silver!


This is correct. We are 1,000 days away from the next bitcoin halving event. The mining started at 50 per block, 4 years later it went to 25, 4 years later to 12.5 - where we are now. Next will be 6.25:
http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/

With BIPs and developments, fee structures and protocols can be adapted for whatever makes sense. In 2025 it is possible that a PoS coin overtakes a PoW like bitcoin because of this. Or some other scenario occurs (like quantum computing) and only quantum safe crypto is used. The only guarantee we have is uncertainty. But that is how free markets are supposed to actually work. The best product rises to the top. And as we currently stand, bitcoin is king in cryptoland but if you look at the bitcoin dominance it has slowly decreased over time. So get some bitcoin, and buy a few of your favorite alt-coins as well.
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby AMulls » Fri Sep 15, 2017

Guess I need to do some more research. Hahahaha.

Is there a major difference between the cryptos? I assume they are all based on the same general principle. I've been focused on learning about Bitcoin, and haven't gone down the rabbit hole of all cryptos.

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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Fri Sep 15, 2017

AMulls wrote:Is there a major difference between the cryptos? I assume they are all based on the same general principle. I've been focused on learning about Bitcoin, and haven't gone down the rabbit hole of all cryptos.


They are (almost) all based on blockchain technology that attempts to decentralize and cut out the middle men of certain industries - money/currency being the first application.

Some blockchains are merely Enterprise Blockchains (like Ripple) which are still centralized. For the true believers (like me), those are not industry disrupting, but merely create efficiencies within the current business paradigm.

All cryptos aren't trying to be currencies (LTC, PIVX, XMR, HYP, BCC, Zcash) though. Some are smart contract platforms (ETH, NEO, QTUM, EOS, XTZ), others are decentralized exchanges (BTS), others are gaming projects (WGR, EDG, DBET, GAME, FUN), others are prediction markets (GNO, REP), others aim to solve other business problems (FCT, BAT, VERI) others want to solve verified identity on blockchain (CVC), others want to help you as a trader (CDT), others want to be the most secure blockchain with future quantum computing in mind (QRL), others want to bring crypto spending to meet the real world (MTL, PAY, OMG), and I could go on and on and on.

Crypto is a digital revolution, and 2017 is the year of awakening. This is still the early adoption phase. One can't take it all in. I recommend finding an area that interests you and learning as much about it as you can.
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Oct 29, 2017

Gold to bitcoin ratio now at 4.5 to 1. I think around 10:1 I will trade a bitcoin for 10 ounces of gold. We'll see though. I may change my mind before then.
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Oct 29, 2017

By the time that all Bitcoins have been mined, the miners will make their money from transactions fee. The number of users will be huge by that time.

All the complaints about the transaction fees and transmission times are meaningless when you compare sending money using a bank wire or Western Union.
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Altima » Sun Oct 29, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:Gold to bitcoin ratio now at 4.5 to 1. I think around 10:1 I will trade a bitcoin for 10 ounces of gold. We'll see though. I may change my mind before then.


That would be a very interesting day. I wonder what Peter Schiff and those gold bugs will say when the ratio reaches 1 BTC : 10 beautiful gold coins.
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby BotanicusRex » Sun Oct 29, 2017

Altima wrote:
That would be a very interesting day. I wonder what Peter Schiff and those gold bugs will say when the ratio reaches 1 BTC : 10 beautiful gold coins.


They would probably say, "If there is anyone crazy enough to give me ten 1 oz gold coins for a bitcoin please form a line to the right".

Bitcoin is an interesting currency concept but as an investment it is tulips I believe. Gold on the other hand is, well, gold. Time will tell.
"You have a choice between the natural stability of gold, and the honesty and intelligence of the members of government. Vote for Gold."........ George Bernard Shaw

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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Altima » Sun Oct 29, 2017

BotanicusRex wrote:
Altima wrote:
That would be a very interesting day. I wonder what Peter Schiff and those gold bugs will say when the ratio reaches 1 BTC : 10 beautiful gold coins.


They would probably say, "If there is anyone crazy enough to give me ten 1 oz gold coins for a bitcoin please form a line to the right".

Bitcoin is an interesting currency concept but as an investment it is tulips I believe. Gold on the other hand is, well, gold. Time will tell.


Strange cos I've been able to buy gold with bitcoins with no problems. And it feels weird that I sold some gold to buy bitcoin, and somehow managed to grow my gold stash later on. Perhaps some people are genuinely afraid of revolutionary ideas and concepts.

Bill Gates has said that “Bitcoin is unstoppable”, Steve Wozniak has said that “Bitcoin is superior to gold” and even Peter Thiel said that “people are underestimating Bitcoin”.

But what do these people know right? :lol:
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby BotanicusRex » Sun Oct 29, 2017

Altima wrote:But what do these people know right? :lol:


Exactly.
Words are cheap. It's one thing to stick your toe in the water, quite another to commit your fortune.
When these gentlemen, and Soros, Buffett, Bloomberg, and other significant moneyed interests start committing serious money to bitcoin.. wake me up.
In the meantime I'll just remain dumb, happy, solvent and tulip-free.

I do know that, if I was younger and more inclined to take a flyer on a 'currency' investment, and if my investment was already up several hundred percent, I would sure as hell be taking some nice profits and buying gold. :lol:
"You have a choice between the natural stability of gold, and the honesty and intelligence of the members of government. Vote for Gold."........ George Bernard Shaw

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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Oct 29, 2017

BotanicusRex wrote:
Altima wrote:
That would be a very interesting day. I wonder what Peter Schiff and those gold bugs will say when the ratio reaches 1 BTC : 10 beautiful gold coins.


They would probably say, "If there is anyone crazy enough to give me ten 1 oz gold coins for a bitcoin please form a line to the right".

Bitcoin is an interesting currency concept but as an investment it is tulips I believe. Gold on the other hand is, well, gold. Time will tell.


When I first learned about bitcoin, it was trading at about the price of 1 ounce of silver. Imagine how I felt when all of a sudden months later it was trading at the price of 10 ounces and I hadn't acquired any yet. I thought I missed the boat. There was no way I could trade 1 ounce of silver for just 1 bitcoin, and now it was ten times that. Of course I didn't trade for PMs; I simply purchased with fiat. I don't recall ever selling PMs to acquire crypto. Maybe some numismatics?

So fast forward a few years and we go from 1 bitcoin costs 10 ounces of silver, to now where 1 bitcoin costs 4.5 ounces of gold. Why would I believe a 10:1 ratio is out of reach? From my perspective it is nearly inevitable, and really just a matter of time. If I wanted to be outlandish I would have said 100 ounces of gold for a bitcoin.

There are several bullion dealers that accept bitcoin. Currently the max purchase at JM Bullion is $100,000 worth of gold in bitcoin in a single purchase. When the time comes, if nobody here wants my business, and my bitcoin, I will simply use JM Bullion and get myself some Eagles or Buffaloes. Maybe gold libertads if I'm feeling frisky.
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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby Long John » Mon Oct 30, 2017

April 1: Gold $1250, Bitcoin $1100
Oct.30: Gold $1270, Bitcoin $6160

This is the time frame when I've been involved. Others here go back further in time and can quote a bigger gap, but even this is jaw-dropping. Some say that huge increase is just numbers in a computer, it doesn't mean anything. (An argument I once made myself.) Not so. I recently cashed out some of my Bitcoin to cover my fiat outlay (the last time I paid cash for BTC was when it was around $2200). Insofar as dollars have worth, Bitcoin has worth. People are using it to buy gold, cars, houses. Admittedly trading BTC directly for cars and houses are rare occurrences at this point, but it happens. A house in the UK was just put on the market for 18 BTC. I wonder if anyone ever sold their house for a bouquet of tulips? :lol:

Anyway, I am not interested in crypto because I want to see the system of banks and dollars replaced. I leave that crusade to others. I am interested in crypto because it pays. Since I've been into precious metals gold has been pretty much static as a store of wealth, it hasn't varied much in value, and maybe that's not a bad thing. Since I first invested in crypto, Bitcoin's dollar value has increased more than 5.5 times. For a lot of people, including some with really deep pockets, that is reason enough. Putting Jamie Dimon out of a job would be a bonus. :thumbup:

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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby silverpv » Mon Oct 30, 2017

Long John wrote:April 1: Gold $1250, Bitcoin $1100
Oct.30: Gold $1270, Bitcoin $6160

This is the time frame when I've been involved. Others here go back further in time and can quote a bigger gap, but even this is jaw-dropping. Some say that huge increase is just numbers in a computer, it doesn't mean anything. (An argument I once made myself.) Not so. I recently cashed out some of my Bitcoin to cover my fiat outlay (the last time I paid cash for BTC was when it was around $2200). Insofar as dollars have worth, Bitcoin has worth. People are using it to buy gold, cars, houses. Admittedly trading BTC directly for cars and houses are rare occurrences at this point, but it happens. A house in the UK was just put on the market for 18 BTC. I wonder if anyone ever sold their house for a bouquet of tulips? :lol:

Anyway, I am not interested in crypto because I want to see the system of banks and dollars replaced. I leave that crusade to others. I am interested in crypto because it pays. Since I've been into precious metals gold has been pretty much static as a store of wealth, it hasn't varied much in value, and maybe that's not a bad thing. Since I first invested in crypto, Bitcoin's dollar value has increased more than 5.5 times. For a lot of people, including some with really deep pockets, that is reason enough. Putting Jamie Dimon out of a job would be a bonus. :thumbup:


Bitcoin is a terrible store of wealth.. Gold is much better, but bitcoin seems to be great as a growth vehicle. I like my gold, but gotta ride the waves. Same thing happened to gold in 2011. At some point, i think btc will burst but the market as a whole will survive.

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Re: GOLD vs BITCOIN

Postby SilverDoge » Mon Oct 30, 2017

silverpv wrote:
Long John wrote:April 1: Gold $1250, Bitcoin $1100
Oct.30: Gold $1270, Bitcoin $6160

This is the time frame when I've been involved. Others here go back further in time and can quote a bigger gap, but even this is jaw-dropping. Some say that huge increase is just numbers in a computer, it doesn't mean anything. (An argument I once made myself.) Not so. I recently cashed out some of my Bitcoin to cover my fiat outlay (the last time I paid cash for BTC was when it was around $2200). Insofar as dollars have worth, Bitcoin has worth. People are using it to buy gold, cars, houses. Admittedly trading BTC directly for cars and houses are rare occurrences at this point, but it happens. A house in the UK was just put on the market for 18 BTC. I wonder if anyone ever sold their house for a bouquet of tulips? :lol:

Anyway, I am not interested in crypto because I want to see the system of banks and dollars replaced. I leave that crusade to others. I am interested in crypto because it pays. Since I've been into precious metals gold has been pretty much static as a store of wealth, it hasn't varied much in value, and maybe that's not a bad thing. Since I first invested in crypto, Bitcoin's dollar value has increased more than 5.5 times. For a lot of people, including some with really deep pockets, that is reason enough. Putting Jamie Dimon out of a job would be a bonus. :thumbup:


Bitcoin is a terrible store of wealth..

Interesting position. I would say it has worked out fairly well, depending on one's overall timeline. From a monetary perspective, I'd say its worse feature would be as a unit of account - in its current manifestation prior to mass adoption.

silverpv wrote:Gold is much better, but bitcoin seems to be great as a growth vehicle. I like my gold, but gotta ride the waves. Same thing happened to gold in 2011. At some point, i think btc will burst but the market as a whole will survive.


How low do you think it can go? I would be very surprised to see sub $2,500 at this point. Granted that is more than a 50% pullback, but there would be massive fiat inflows at sub $3k.
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