Bitcoins - fad or trend?

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SilverDoge
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:
texmex66 wrote:
Silversaving wrote:I've been in the bitcoin cash camp from the start...believe there are a few posts by me to that effect buried around here. BTC had something of a hostile takeover by a for profit company and their paid employees trying to bring in new code to force offchain settlements of btc. They wanted this because they could CHARGE for those and rake in a huge amounts of money. The reason bitcoin cash came about was some folks saw this and felt they needed to fork the code before it was irreversibly damaged by segwit code addition (something that CANNOT be removed once added). So what we ended up with was COREcoin (the paid, for profit entity now going by the name btc) and bitcoin cash (The PURE original bitcoin code with larger blocks to make it faster and cheaper). Now folks freaking out about them increasing the block size are either new to crypto or ingorant as btc has done this multiple times in the past as more people adopted the use of btc.

At any rate, whatever happens, bought my 40 bitcoin cash in the upper $100s when it first forked and will be holding through this whole mess.


Nice foresight on your part. :thumbup:


The way things are going we could hit parity by years end. :shock:

My loss in BTC is being neutralized by my gains in BCH at the moment. :pop:


You guys nailed it. The current Bitcoin situation would never had occurred if Nakamoto was still involved in the project. It does not align with his vision for a digital currency, and I think he would have changed the code several years ago.


I've seen a bunch of different alt-coins use this same argument, claiming they are sticking to the original Satoshi vision. It is similar to saying we know exactly how the Founding Fathers would have wanted to govern the internet. We really don't know exactly because the situation and varying factors change, and we update our opinions based on the facts and assumptions of the current day. We all pretend we know what Satoshi would say, but at this point it is merely an appeal to authority argument.
Bucketeer wrote:I said earlier that I believed that BTC and BCH would reach "relative price" parity, but that BCH would be slightly higher priced. I also said that BCH is "better, faster, and cheaper", but that will probably change.

A good analogy would be to compare regular mail and express mail. BCH is like express mail. It is better, faster, but it is not cheaper.


The same could be said of PIVX, Dash, LTC, and many others. They are all faster & cheaper than bitcoin. All BCH has over these other alternatives is the name, and bitcoin.com URL. Give me another good reason why BCH is better or worth 5-10 times the market cap of LTC or Dash which have been successfully operating for years.

People holding other alts are getting crushed with this run as well because alts are priced in bitcoin. I don't mind alternatives to bitcoin that add value, I just think the market is having a bit of a mini-panic attack and buying into false hype currently. I'm tempted to sell my BCH for bitcoin above $2k but I own it as a hedge in case the worst should happen so I won't be selling it.

Try to keep a level head during this roller coaster ride.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Some good thoughts on the day from Michael at his Boxmining channel:

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Nov 12, 2017

In the wee hours my brother-in-law, who is a recent entry in the crypto market, texted me: "BCH 2450 go?" Yesterday afternoon he was wavering when it was $1000 cheaper. I knew he was gripped by FOMO, having been there done that myself more than once. I texted back "NO NO NO something not right" with more confidence than I felt, being half asleep and having no evidence. BCH soon dumped about $1000 (got a couple hundred back this a.m.) and BTC has gained about $600. I still have no evidence but it looked like a massive pump & dump. Some very big fish are having some fun with this, at the expense of a lot of little fish, but what else is new?

Edit: For a much more informed explanation.The article cites a much bigger BCH surge and dump than I can see on CMC. Charlie Lee's and Andreas Antonopoulos' comments are interesting.

http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/11/12/bitco ... long-term/
Last edited by Long John on Sun Nov 12, 2017, edited 1 time in total.

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SilverDoge
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Long John wrote:In the wee hours my brother-in-law, who is a recent entry in the crypto market, texted me: "BCH 2450 go?" Yesterday afternoon he was wavering when it was $1000 cheaper. I knew he was gripped by FOMO, having been there done that myself more than once. I texted back "NO NO NO something not right"


Good advice. FOMO can be a real killer. It is possible to trade these huge swings and make big money, but it is just as likely one loses money trying to do it.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Nov 12, 2017

:kitty: :kitty: :kitty: :kitty:
SilverDoge wrote:
Bucketeer wrote:
texmex66 wrote:
Silversaving wrote:I've been in the bitcoin cash camp from the start...believe there are a few posts by me to that effect buried around here. BTC had something of a hostile takeover by a for profit company and their paid employees trying to bring in new code to force offchain settlements of btc. They wanted this because they could CHARGE for those and rake in a huge amounts of money. The reason bitcoin cash came about was some folks saw this and felt they needed to fork the code before it was irreversibly damaged by segwit code addition (something that CANNOT be removed once added). So what we ended up with was COREcoin (the paid, for profit entity now going by the name btc) and bitcoin cash (The PURE original bitcoin code with larger blocks to make it faster and cheaper). Now folks freaking out about them increasing the block size are either new to crypt/

At any rate, whatever happens, bought my 40 bitcoin cash in the upper $100s when it first forked and will be holding through this whole mess.


Nice foresight on your part. :thumbup:


The way things are going we could hit parity by years end. :shock:

My loss in BTC is being neutralized by my gains in BCH at the moment. :pop:


You guys nailed it. The current Bitcoin situation would never had occurred if Nakamoto was still involved in the project. It does not align with his vision for a digital currency, and I think he would have changed the code several years ago.


I've seen a bunch of different alt-coins use this same argument, claiming they are sticking to the original Satoshi vision. It is similar to saying we know exactly how the Founding Fathers would have wanted to govern the internet. We really don't know exactly because the situation and varying factors change, and we update our opinions based on the facts and assumptions of the current day. We all pretend we know what Satoshi would say, but at this point it is merely an appeal to authority argument.
Bucketeer wrote:I said earlier that I believed that BTC and BCH would reach "relative price" parity, but that BCH would be slightly higher priced. I also said that BCH is "better, faster, and cheaper", but that will probably change.

A good analogy would be to compare regular mail and express mail. BCH is like express mail. It is better, faster, but it is not cheaper.


The same could be said of PIVX, Dash, LTC, and many others. They are all faster & cheaper than bitcoin. All BCH has over these other alternatives is the name, and bitcoin.com URL. Give me another good reason why BCH is better or worth 5-10 times the market cap of LTC or Dash which have been successfully operating for years.
The Bitcoin name and 1st mover status, taken although not really deserved.Nonetheless, this is a huge advantage. Nobody has heard of PIVX or Dash

People holding other alts are getting crushed with this run as well because alts are priced in bitcoin. I don't mind alternatives to bitcoin that add value, I just think the market is having a bit of a mini-panic attack and buying into false hype currently. I'm tempted to sell my BCH for bitcoin above $2k but I own it as a hedge in case the worst should happen so I won't be selling it.[quote I see BCH setting up to become a somewhat better alternative to Bitcoin, HODL bch.

Bitcoin has some level of name recognition with the general public, which is something that PIVX and DASH don't have. Being the 1st mover has immense benefits.
Try to keep a level head during this roller coaster ride.
Good advice Travis
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Nov 12, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:I just think the market is having a bit of a mini-panic attack and buying into false hype currently.

We don't always agree, but we agree on this. With BCH down $1100 from its highest and BTC up $750 from its lowest, the market seems to be reaching that conclusion as well. Or the whales have made their money on one swing and now are engineering an opposite swing to make more. CME supposedly will restrict such wild swings on their platform; I wonder how much impact that will have on the overall market.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Nov 12, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:
Bucketeer wrote:I said earlier that I believed that BTC and BCH would reach "relative price" parity, but that BCH would be slightly higher priced. I also said that BCH is "better, faster, and cheaper", but that will probably change.

A good analogy would be to compare regular mail and express mail. BCH is like express mail. It is better, faster, but it is not cheaper.


The same could be said of PIVX, Dash, LTC, and many others. They are all faster & cheaper than bitcoin. All BCH has over these other alternatives is the name, and bitcoin.com URL. Give me another good reason why BCH is better or worth 5-10 times the market cap of LTC or Dash which have been successfully operating for years.


You are correct, however the NAME means a lot. That's called Goodwill, and it is valuable. How much value is assigned to the name of Disney, or Campbell's Soup? A LOT! Nobody knows about PIVX, and only a few know about Bitcoin.

SilverDoge wrote:People holding other alts are getting crushed with this run as well because alts are priced in bitcoin. I don't mind alternatives to bitcoin that add value, I just think the market is having a bit of a mini-panic attack and buying into false hype currently. I'm tempted to sell my BCH for bitcoin above $2k but I own it as a hedge in case the worst should happen so I won't be selling it.


I have little sympathy for those people holding alts being crushed. Bitcoin was the original Alt. We got our butts kicked more than a few times, and were pronounced DEAD more than 200 times. They should have bought Bitcoin.

SilverDoge] wrote:Try to keep a level head during this roller coaster ride.


Hang on tight!
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Long John wrote:In the wee hours my brother-in-law, who is a recent entry in the crypto market, texted me: "BCH 2450 go?" Yesterday afternoon he was wavering when it was $1000 cheaper. I knew he was gripped by FOMO, having been there done that myself more than once. I texted back "NO NO NO something not right" with more confidence than I felt, being half asleep and having no evidence. BCH soon dumped about $1000 (got a couple hundred back this a.m.) and BTC has gained about $600. I still have no evidence but it looked like a massive pump & dump. Some very big fish are having some fun with this, at the expense of a lot of little fish, but what else is new?

Edit: For a much more informed explanation.The article cites a much bigger BCH surge and dump than I can see on CMC. Charlie Lee's and Andreas Antonopoulos' comments are interesting.

http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/11/12/bitco ... long-term/


Kudos to you for talking him out of buying a top. Personally, I think BCH has a bright future and I added to my position. If BCH revisits the high, watch out because it could be for real.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Long John wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:I just think the market is having a bit of a mini-panic attack and buying into false hype currently.

We don't always agree, but we agree on this. With BCH down $1100 from its highest and BTC up $750 from its lowest, the market seems to be reaching that conclusion as well. Or the whales have made their money on one swing and now are engineering an opposite swing to make more. CME supposedly will restrict such wild swings on their platform; I wonder how much impact that will have on the overall market.


I don't think the CME circuit breakers are going to have much of an effect on the cash market for Bitcoin.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Turtle » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Dangit, I should have sold at 7k. BCH is interesting, but that spike had to have only been a handful of trades. It will be curious to see what happens with that. I know a guy who wanted to invest serious money in BCH right after the fork. Wonder how he did
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Money flowed out of crypto overall today, Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, lots of alts. Exception: Dash, today's news-pump darling. At least BTC is up about $475 from the latest crash, but had been up even more. Well, maybe $10,000 is not in the cards this year. But where it sits at this hour was considered the moon a couple months ago. I think I said moonshots in a short period make me nervous, and BTC certainly had that.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Nov 12, 2017

John, you got into Bitcoin at a good price. Enjoy the ride and don't worry about the money. :thumbup:
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Force of habit. Strictly speaking I should no longer care, but usually when I stop caring it means I'm bored and need a different challenge. Simply owning some Bitcoin and Neo isn't enough stimulation for me; first challenge was to get in the clear; second challenge is for the remaining stash to reach a certain value. It keeps me interested.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Mon Nov 13, 2017

Long John wrote:Force of habit. Strictly speaking I should no longer care, but usually when I stop caring it means I'm bored and need a different challenge. Simply owning some Bitcoin and Neo isn't enough stimulation for me; first challenge was to get in the clear; second challenge is for the remaining stash to reach a certain value. It keeps me interested.


I completely understand this issue. It leads to me over trading too. I remained strong this time and just sat with my BTC and BCH and didn't try to trade the swings or guess which one would "win out" over the other. Just held both calmly while the rest of the Cryptoverse went crazy. Yes, some people made a lot of money, but others lost out big too. Some people bought BCH over $2,500 and they are now down over 50%.

What I find will cure this is either researching projects I am unfamiliar with, or upcoming ICOs - even if I don't buy anything. It keeps me engaged, and allows me to spot opportunity in case something comes along to my liking... which seems to happen a lot.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Mon Nov 13, 2017

Long John wrote:Force of habit. Strictly speaking I should no longer care, but usually when I stop caring it means I'm bored and need a different challenge.

I get that, which is why I'm trying to build a solar-powered Qtum staking machine. I'm bored too.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Mon Nov 13, 2017

If I had been watching the price, I would have sold it for a double-plus. I haven't looked at a chart and I'm sitting on a profit. I still believe that BCH has potential, but only time will tell.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Mon Nov 13, 2017

Well, I'm not bored yet. At this hour Bitcoin has jumped $1200 from its $5500 low. Almost makes me wish I was still playing the swings. I'm playing them in my head. :lol:

Travis and I weren't the only ones suspecting the Bitcoin Cash frenzy was engineered. Saw this on CryptoCoinsNews:

Many observers believe that a significant portion of the bitcoin cash price rally was inorganic — the result of market manipulation by large stakeholders.


CCN also notes that 61% of all Bitcoin Cash trades take place on South Korean exchanges. South Korea has a zero-fee policy, making it easy and free for big stakeholders to manipulate a market.

Some news sources say BCH got as high as $2800, thus dumping $1700. I don't see that on CMC, maybe on a South Korean exchange it got that high. At any rate, "parity" between BTC and BCH seems to be on hold. I hope no one here sold low on Bitcoin, bought high on Bitcoin Cash in that hope. Evidently some people in the world did, to the benefit of the whales. :(

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Mon Nov 13, 2017

Got an email, ostensibly from Coinbase, saying a smartphone in Russia was trying to get access to my account. If I want to stop that access, click on a link, which took me to a page that looked like a Coinbase sign-in page. If I'd signed in there, I don't doubt I would have sent my password to some bad actors. Classic phishing attempt: Prey on your fear that someone is trying to steal your money (or Bitcoin) ... which ironically is true.

The "Coinbase" email came from this actual address (no-reply@xn--conbase-0ya.com) which hides under a spoofed Coinbase address. They can't even spell Coinbase right.

The links hiding under "I Authorize This Computer" and "Cancel Request" are identical, a long URL at grrhut.com, so no matter which you clicked you're taken to the fake Coinbase sign-in page.

Beware this scam email ! And enable 2 Factor Authentication so no one can withdraw from your account without a randomly generated code that is sent to your mobile device.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Mon Nov 13, 2017

Anybody care to argue about the utility value of BCH?

Screenshot_20171113-140325.jpg
Screenshot_20171113-140325.jpg (154.04 KiB) Viewed 137 times


I'm a Bitcoin Bull, but I believe BCH is going to replace Bitcoin.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Mon Nov 13, 2017

For all of you Bitcoin naysayers, here's your chance to put your money where your mouth is. Good luck!

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/13/cme-ceo-says-bitcoin-futures-will-list-second-week-in-december.html
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