Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Discussion of all things crypto and blockchain.
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sat Nov 11, 2017

I'm still a hodler. Like you, I also had equal amounts of BTC/BCH.

I'm now at 1 BCT to 1.5 BCH.

TexMex really got me thinking about the BTC/BCH controversy, when he posted that he had switched some BTC in BCH. I had been thinking about the situation abstractly, but spent most of last night thinking it thru. If BCH falls to zero, I'm still so far ahead of the game that it really doesn't matter.

I consider myself truly blessed for even getting into Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Back on August 1st, my Bitcoins were in a Jaxx wallet. I have since bought a KeepKey,and moved the Bitcoins there. I've been wondering just how I was going to separate the 2 coins, since BCH has become active in the marketplace.

I bought a little AcePC for staking Qtum last week, and for a few tasks that my ChromeBox can't handle. I downloaded the Jaxx wallet last night, and restored it with the pass-phrase. After the wallet was restored, I picked out some wallets (BTC, ETH, QTUM, SALT, and BCH.

After the wallets were created, I initialized all of them. To my great surprise, The BCH wallet contained my BCH. I didn't have to do a thing. The value was just over 5 figures, so it was a really nice surprise.

I have an older PC that I used during the Ethereum crowd-sale. I installed the Ether in the temporary wallet in Geth 0.73. I had an old computer and a slow internet connection, and I was only able to download the block chain 1 time. It took almost 5 days. I transferred the Ether, but was never able to access it after that because Geth 0.73 was unable to update the block chain.

A lot of people had problems with 0.73, and the next couple of updates didn't work for me either. I had the coins in the wallet, but no way to move them out.

One day, I tried Geth and while it didn't update the block chain, it did allow me to transfer Ether to the Jaxx wallet. Because the block chain wasn't up to date, I didn't know how many Ether were actually there. I transferred as much as I was comfortable with, and put the project aside.

I estimate that I have 40-50 Ether left on this computer. My next task is going to be to get the wallet.dat files, and download the current version of Geth to the new computer. My internet connection is much faster than I had before, so I'm hopefully all is not lost.

Thanks for letting me ramble.
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sat Nov 11, 2017

BTG is now $375, up 109%.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sat Nov 11, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:BTG is now $375, up 109%.


That's interesting. I think I had about 0.001 BTC on Bittrex during the BTG snapshot. I was actively trying to avoid BTG but I had some dust on the exchange. I don't know if/when Bittrex will support but it isn't that important to me.

Ironically B2X futures are still selling at HitBTC right now for $344. Which would you rather have, BTG or a B2X future?

My answer: neither.
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sat Nov 11, 2017

I'd take BTG because I don't think it is harmful to the protocol or the protection against a 51% attack. As to if it becomes used and accepted, that's anybody's guess. I don't see it as a significant competitor to Bitcoin.
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Long John
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sat Nov 11, 2017

Hmm, not liking the scenario of BTC falling and BCH rising until they're worth the same. That doesn't seem sustainable, and in the end one has to emerge as the dominant Bitcoin with the other falling (or falling back) to alt status or being absorbed. If that scenario develops, BTC will never see $10K and I wouldn't think the two combined would see $10K. The conflict would send a lot of money to the best alts, or to fiat. It's not a scenario I care for, but no denying BCH is gaining momentum and perhaps what I want doesn't matter. Others with almost unimaginable resources will decide the matter.

I'll observe for awhile longer before deciding a personal course of action. It won't be selling BTC for BCH, I'm pretty sure. If I become convinced BTC will never see the heights that have been predicted for so long, well, I can think of some things to spend the money on. But I'm not yet convinced.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Southpaw » Sat Nov 11, 2017

https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

Unconfirmed transactions climbing like crazy was curious if the miners cause this or someone putting through all these really small transactions. Just trying to wrap my head around it.

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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sat Nov 11, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:I see price parity coming with BTC/BCH, with perhaps a small premium to BCH.


I think that BTC will decrease in value while BCH rises in value until relative parity is established. We're really close to the action, and understand the politics and the in-fighting. If somebody new expressed an interest in Bitcoin, you could explain the entire history (and only confuse them in the process).

If you told them that both coins are equal, with the same limited supply, but BCH was "better, faster, cheaper", I think most people would go with BCH.

Does that statement seem illogical or incorrect?

It seems plausible to me, since both coins accomplish the same thing, but one does it "better, faster, cheaper", and it is priced less less than its' slower, more expensive sibling.

Bitcoin has already far exceeded anybodies expectation for 2017. At the beginning of this year, a $3000 EOY estimate was laughable, but nobody is laughing now.

Many people in this topic back in January stated that $1000 Bitcoin was too expensive and unsustainable, and I'm probably one of them.
Last edited by Bucketeer on Sat Nov 11, 2017, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Silversaving » Sat Nov 11, 2017

I've been in the bitcoin cash camp from the start...believe there are a few posts by me to that effect buried around here. BTC had something of a hostile takeover by a for profit company and their paid employees trying to bring in new code to force offchain settlements of btc. They wanted this because they could CHARGE for those and rake in a huge amounts of money. The reason bitcoin cash came about was some folks saw this and felt they needed to fork the code before it was irreversibly damaged by segwit code addition (something that CANNOT be removed once added). So what we ended up with was COREcoin (the paid, for profit entity now going by the name btc) and bitcoin cash (The PURE original bitcoin code with larger blocks to make it faster and cheaper). Now folks freaking out about them increasing the block size are either new to crypto or ingorant as btc has done this multiple times in the past as more people adopted the use of btc.

At any rate, whatever happens, bought my 40 bitcoin cash in the upper $100s when it first forked and will be holding through this whole mess.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby texmex66 » Sat Nov 11, 2017

Silversaving wrote:I've been in the bitcoin cash camp from the start...believe there are a few posts by me to that effect buried around here. BTC had something of a hostile takeover by a for profit company and their paid employees trying to bring in new code to force offchain settlements of btc. They wanted this because they could CHARGE for those and rake in a huge amounts of money. The reason bitcoin cash came about was some folks saw this and felt they needed to fork the code before it was irreversibly damaged by segwit code addition (something that CANNOT be removed once added). So what we ended up with was COREcoin (the paid, for profit entity now going by the name btc) and bitcoin cash (The PURE original bitcoin code with larger blocks to make it faster and cheaper). Now folks freaking out about them increasing the block size are either new to crypto or ingorant as btc has done this multiple times in the past as more people adopted the use of btc.

At any rate, whatever happens, bought my 40 bitcoin cash in the upper $100s when it first forked and will be holding through this whole mess.


Nice foresight on your part. :thumbup:

The way things are going we could hit parity by years end. :shock:

My loss in BTC is being neutralized by my gains in BCH at the moment. :pop:

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sat Nov 11, 2017

texmex66 wrote:
Silversaving wrote:I've been in the bitcoin cash camp from the start...believe there are a few posts by me to that effect buried around here. BTC had something of a hostile takeover by a for profit company and their paid employees trying to bring in new code to force offchain settlements of btc. They wanted this because they could CHARGE for those and rake in a huge amounts of money. The reason bitcoin cash came about was some folks saw this and felt they needed to fork the code before it was irreversibly damaged by segwit code addition (something that CANNOT be removed once added). So what we ended up with was COREcoin (the paid, for profit entity now going by the name btc) and bitcoin cash (The PURE original bitcoin code with larger blocks to make it faster and cheaper). Now folks freaking out about them increasing the block size are either new to crypto or ingorant as btc has done this multiple times in the past as more people adopted the use of btc.

At any rate, whatever happens, bought my 40 bitcoin cash in the upper $100s when it first forked and will be holding through this whole mess.


Nice foresight on your part. :thumbup:


The way things are going we could hit parity by years end. :shock:

My loss in BTC is being neutralized by my gains in BCH at the moment. :pop:


You guys nailed it. The current Bitcoin situation would never had occurred if Nakamoto was still involved in the project. It does not align with his vision for a digital currency, and I think he would have changed the code several years ago.

I said earlier that I believed that BTC and BCH would reach "relative price" parity, but that BCH would be slightly higher priced. I also said that BCH is "better, faster, and cheaper", but that will probably change.

A good analogy would be to compare regular mail and express mail. BCH is like express mail. It is better, faster, but it is not cheaper.

The same thing applies to Bitcoin transmission fees. You can go fast or slow, depending on what you are willing to pay.

With the release of BCH, the supply of Bitcoin has effectively doubled. I still believe that BTC will decline and BCH will increase until "relative parity" is established.

BCC.............$5905
BCH.............$1813
BTG..............$450
-------------------------
..................$8168

It's happening right before our eyes!
Last edited by Bucketeer on Sun Nov 12, 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Fabio » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Here's an interesting article, not sure if someone posted it already. According to this article from July 30, B2X was never going to happen, it was a distraction (or something along those lines), the plan was to make BCH the dominant coin.

https://pastebin.com/n0aGBMQr

I personally own as much BTC as BCH, which is 0.000.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Well, that was ugly, for those still holding BTC. Here's a lesson in going with your gut and not being overly influenced by what others are saying or doing. If I were to sell right now, I would have forfeited about $11K extra profit because I didn't stick to my guns a week ago. As posted here at the time, I sold off at $7479, lost my nerve and bought it back at $7385. It looked good for awhile, getting up to $7800 or so, not so good today. Newcomers who bought BTC in the $7000s are hurting a lot worse. But people who have been in for awhile should be OK, even after this plummet. Sure wish Coinbase would release the Bitcoin Gold it's sitting on. Not that I think much of BTG's future, but people with a BTC balance in Coinbase at the time of that fork are entitled to that coin.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Fabio wrote:Here's an interesting article, not sure if someone posted it already. According to this article from July 30, B2X was never going to happen, it was a distraction (or something along those lines), the plan was to make BCH the dominant coin.

Yeah, I've seen conspiracy theories in that vein, that some folks are raking in the dollars and the Bitcoin by manipulating these events to unfold just as they have done. Sounds like sour grapes to me, but who knows. What goes on with the super-rich in this market is almost beyond my comprehension. Almost.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:
texmex66 wrote:
Silversaving wrote:I've been in the bitcoin cash camp from the start...believe there are a few posts by me to that effect buried around here. BTC had something of a hostile takeover by a for profit company and their paid employees trying to bring in new code to force offchain settlements of btc. They wanted this because they could CHARGE for those and rake in a huge amounts of money. The reason bitcoin cash came about was some folks saw this and felt they needed to fork the code before it was irreversibly damaged by segwit code addition (something that CANNOT be removed once added). So what we ended up with was COREcoin (the paid, for profit entity now going by the name btc) and bitcoin cash (The PURE original bitcoin code with larger blocks to make it faster and cheaper). Now folks freaking out about them increasing the block size are either new to crypto or ingorant as btc has done this multiple times in the past as more people adopted the use of btc.

At any rate, whatever happens, bought my 40 bitcoin cash in the upper $100s when it first forked and will be holding through this whole mess.


Nice foresight on your part. :thumbup:


The way things are going we could hit parity by years end. :shock:

My loss in BTC is being neutralized by my gains in BCH at the moment. :pop:


You guys nailed it. The current Bitcoin situation would never had occurred if Nakamoto was still involved in the project. It does not align with his vision for a digital currency, and I think he would have changed the code several years ago.


I've seen a bunch of different alt-coins use this same argument, claiming they are sticking to the original Satoshi vision. It is similar to saying we know exactly how the Founding Fathers would have wanted to govern the internet. We really don't know exactly because the situation and varying factors change, and we update our opinions based on the facts and assumptions of the current day. We all pretend we know what Satoshi would say, but at this point it is merely an appeal to authority argument.
Bucketeer wrote:I said earlier that I believed that BTC and BCH would reach "relative price" parity, but that BCH would be slightly higher priced. I also said that BCH is "better, faster, and cheaper", but that will probably change.

A good analogy would be to compare regular mail and express mail. BCH is like express mail. It is better, faster, but it is not cheaper.


The same could be said of PIVX, Dash, LTC, and many others. They are all faster & cheaper than bitcoin. All BCH has over these other alternatives is the name, and bitcoin.com URL. Give me another good reason why BCH is better or worth 5-10 times the market cap of LTC or Dash which have been successfully operating for years.

People holding other alts are getting crushed with this run as well because alts are priced in bitcoin. I don't mind alternatives to bitcoin that add value, I just think the market is having a bit of a mini-panic attack and buying into false hype currently. I'm tempted to sell my BCH for bitcoin above $2k but I own it as a hedge in case the worst should happen so I won't be selling it.

Try to keep a level head during this roller coaster ride.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Some good thoughts on the day from Michael at his Boxmining channel:

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Nov 12, 2017

In the wee hours my brother-in-law, who is a recent entry in the crypto market, texted me: "BCH 2450 go?" Yesterday afternoon he was wavering when it was $1000 cheaper. I knew he was gripped by FOMO, having been there done that myself more than once. I texted back "NO NO NO something not right" with more confidence than I felt, being half asleep and having no evidence. BCH soon dumped about $1000 (got a couple hundred back this a.m.) and BTC has gained about $600. I still have no evidence but it looked like a massive pump & dump. Some very big fish are having some fun with this, at the expense of a lot of little fish, but what else is new?

Edit: For a much more informed explanation.The article cites a much bigger BCH surge and dump than I can see on CMC. Charlie Lee's and Andreas Antonopoulos' comments are interesting.

http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/11/12/bitco ... long-term/
Last edited by Long John on Sun Nov 12, 2017, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Nov 12, 2017

Long John wrote:In the wee hours my brother-in-law, who is a recent entry in the crypto market, texted me: "BCH 2450 go?" Yesterday afternoon he was wavering when it was $1000 cheaper. I knew he was gripped by FOMO, having been there done that myself more than once. I texted back "NO NO NO something not right"


Good advice. FOMO can be a real killer. It is possible to trade these huge swings and make big money, but it is just as likely one loses money trying to do it.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Nov 12, 2017

:kitty: :kitty: :kitty: :kitty:
SilverDoge wrote:
Bucketeer wrote:
texmex66 wrote:
Silversaving wrote:I've been in the bitcoin cash camp from the start...believe there are a few posts by me to that effect buried around here. BTC had something of a hostile takeover by a for profit company and their paid employees trying to bring in new code to force offchain settlements of btc. They wanted this because they could CHARGE for those and rake in a huge amounts of money. The reason bitcoin cash came about was some folks saw this and felt they needed to fork the code before it was irreversibly damaged by segwit code addition (something that CANNOT be removed once added). So what we ended up with was COREcoin (the paid, for profit entity now going by the name btc) and bitcoin cash (The PURE original bitcoin code with larger blocks to make it faster and cheaper). Now folks freaking out about them increasing the block size are either new to crypt/

At any rate, whatever happens, bought my 40 bitcoin cash in the upper $100s when it first forked and will be holding through this whole mess.


Nice foresight on your part. :thumbup:


The way things are going we could hit parity by years end. :shock:

My loss in BTC is being neutralized by my gains in BCH at the moment. :pop:


You guys nailed it. The current Bitcoin situation would never had occurred if Nakamoto was still involved in the project. It does not align with his vision for a digital currency, and I think he would have changed the code several years ago.


I've seen a bunch of different alt-coins use this same argument, claiming they are sticking to the original Satoshi vision. It is similar to saying we know exactly how the Founding Fathers would have wanted to govern the internet. We really don't know exactly because the situation and varying factors change, and we update our opinions based on the facts and assumptions of the current day. We all pretend we know what Satoshi would say, but at this point it is merely an appeal to authority argument.
Bucketeer wrote:I said earlier that I believed that BTC and BCH would reach "relative price" parity, but that BCH would be slightly higher priced. I also said that BCH is "better, faster, and cheaper", but that will probably change.

A good analogy would be to compare regular mail and express mail. BCH is like express mail. It is better, faster, but it is not cheaper.


The same could be said of PIVX, Dash, LTC, and many others. They are all faster & cheaper than bitcoin. All BCH has over these other alternatives is the name, and bitcoin.com URL. Give me another good reason why BCH is better or worth 5-10 times the market cap of LTC or Dash which have been successfully operating for years.
The Bitcoin name and 1st mover status, taken although not really deserved.Nonetheless, this is a huge advantage. Nobody has heard of PIVX or Dash

People holding other alts are getting crushed with this run as well because alts are priced in bitcoin. I don't mind alternatives to bitcoin that add value, I just think the market is having a bit of a mini-panic attack and buying into false hype currently. I'm tempted to sell my BCH for bitcoin above $2k but I own it as a hedge in case the worst should happen so I won't be selling it.[quote I see BCH setting up to become a somewhat better alternative to Bitcoin, HODL bch.

Bitcoin has some level of name recognition with the general public, which is something that PIVX and DASH don't have. Being the 1st mover has immense benefits.
Try to keep a level head during this roller coaster ride.
Good advice Travis
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Long John
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Nov 12, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:I just think the market is having a bit of a mini-panic attack and buying into false hype currently.

We don't always agree, but we agree on this. With BCH down $1100 from its highest and BTC up $750 from its lowest, the market seems to be reaching that conclusion as well. Or the whales have made their money on one swing and now are engineering an opposite swing to make more. CME supposedly will restrict such wild swings on their platform; I wonder how much impact that will have on the overall market.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Nov 12, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:
Bucketeer wrote:I said earlier that I believed that BTC and BCH would reach "relative price" parity, but that BCH would be slightly higher priced. I also said that BCH is "better, faster, and cheaper", but that will probably change.

A good analogy would be to compare regular mail and express mail. BCH is like express mail. It is better, faster, but it is not cheaper.


The same could be said of PIVX, Dash, LTC, and many others. They are all faster & cheaper than bitcoin. All BCH has over these other alternatives is the name, and bitcoin.com URL. Give me another good reason why BCH is better or worth 5-10 times the market cap of LTC or Dash which have been successfully operating for years.


You are correct, however the NAME means a lot. That's called Goodwill, and it is valuable. How much value is assigned to the name of Disney, or Campbell's Soup? A LOT! Nobody knows about PIVX, and only a few know about Bitcoin.

SilverDoge wrote:People holding other alts are getting crushed with this run as well because alts are priced in bitcoin. I don't mind alternatives to bitcoin that add value, I just think the market is having a bit of a mini-panic attack and buying into false hype currently. I'm tempted to sell my BCH for bitcoin above $2k but I own it as a hedge in case the worst should happen so I won't be selling it.


I have little sympathy for those people holding alts being crushed. Bitcoin was the original Alt. We got our butts kicked more than a few times, and were pronounced DEAD more than 200 times. They should have bought Bitcoin.

SilverDoge] wrote:Try to keep a level head during this roller coaster ride.


Hang on tight!
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