Bitcoins - fad or trend?

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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Thu Apr 06, 2017

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SilverDoge
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Banks lecturing crypto advocates about fraud or control of money is quite hilarious:
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Sun Apr 09, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:Banks lecturing crypto advocates about fraud or control of money is quite hilarious:


Until three's and FDIC for cyrpto, there is a point to be made here. Haven't there been losses already in cyrpto due to fraud/theft?
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Apr 09, 2017

fraud, theft, and a ton of losses by early adopters mishandling their assets/wallets.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Apr 09, 2017

jcz1 wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:Banks lecturing crypto advocates about fraud or control of money is quite hilarious:


Until three's and FDIC for cyrpto, there is a point to be made here. Haven't there been losses already in cyrpto due to fraud/theft?


You put your money in a bank... you technically no longer own that money. You are a liability on the bank's balance sheet. When you want it back, as long as society is operating like "normal" you have access to your funds. The FDIC guarantees money for participating banks if they fail individually. What happens if 10% fail, or 50%? Is Congress going to bail the banks out AGAIN? Or less dramatically, capital controls. A bank can limit your withdrawal to $200 a day, or less, due to "insert whatever reason here". See Cyprus, or Greece.

The losses in crypto have been due to people keeping their money on online exchanges. If you keep your coin in offline storage like a Trezor, or KeepKey, or a paper wallet and you DON'T lose or forget the password that you create - then you are good. Take back control of your own life. Cut out the counterparty risk. Physical precious metals, and cold storage crypto. FDIC is a false security blanket in a systemic banking collapse. I give the elite banksters as little of my money as possible. Don't fund the enemy!
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Long John
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Surely you don't mean to imply that none of the 700 cryptocurrencies out there will ever go down the drain taking your money with it. Having your WhizzoCoin on a secure thumb drive is of no help if WhizzoCoin fails or its owner flies the coop.

Also, there is nothing about crypto that prevents unscrupulous people from starting up a currency with full intent of ripping off their investors. Just because you don't work for Goldman Sachs or JPMorgan or BOA or Wells Fargo doesn't mean you are pure of heart. If there is money to be stolen, bad people are going to try to steal it.

Or convince you to give it to them.

I have invested in BTC and PIVX, and a little in ETH, because I was overcome by the logic that it is the future, like it or not. But I am under no illusions as to it being safer or somehow morally better than my traditional bank. I started stacking for a reason, too, but precious metals are rife with criminality. Money corrupts. Cryptomoney is not immune.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Long John wrote:Surely you don't mean to imply that none of the 700 cryptocurrencies out there will ever go down the drain taking your money with it. Having your WhizzoCoin on a secure thumb drive is of no help if WhizzoCoin fails or its owner flies the coop.

Also, there is nothing about crypto that prevents unscrupulous people from starting up a currency with full intent of ripping off their investors. Just because you don't work for Goldman Sachs or JPMorgan or BOA or Wells Fargo doesn't mean you are pure of heart. If there is money to be stolen, bad people are going to try to steal it.

Or convince you to give it to them.

I have invested in BTC and PIVX, and a little in ETH, because I was overcome by the logic that it is the future, like it or not. But I am under no illusions as to it being safer or somehow morally better than my traditional bank. I started stacking for a reason, too, but precious metals are rife with criminality. Money corrupts. Cryptomoney is not immune.


You are correct. Market risk is inherent in any traded stock, bond, crypto, etc. The fraud/incompetence of Mt.Gox or the security issues of a crypto exchange were the events I was referring to when talking about theft/fraud, etc.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Long John wrote: I have invested in BTC and PIVX, and a little in ETH, because I was overcome by the logic that it is the future, like it or not. But I am under no illusions as to it being safer or somehow morally better than my traditional bank. I started stacking for a reason, too, but precious metals are rife with criminality. Money corrupts. Cryptomoney is not immune.


I'm glad you spread your money around John. In 5 years you'll be very happy you bought Bitcoin, and hopefully with the other 2 coins too. Now comes the hard part, and this isn't an easy task (I'm only talking about Bitcoin here).

You need to absolutely believe in your original instincts, and steel your emotions.

Right now, Bitcoin is $1214. Tomorrow morning, it could be $926. You'll wake up, turn on the coffee, check your phone, and want to throw-up.....it is at this point that many people panic-sell their position.

I'm guilty - that's exactly what I did the first time.

I was very fortunate in that I made a punk profit of $900. But I'm still chasing Bitcoin to get back to my original position-size. I'm getting close, but my current cost is higher than my original cost. I'm still in cheap, but I didn't understand Bitcoin as well as I do now. I treated it like a stock. Bitcoin doesn't behave like a stock.

When this scenario happens, and it will happen, you don't sell. You buy with whatever extra funds you have available.

---------------------------

I'm not going to answer any questions about what I'm going to say next, you'll have to do your own research. There are a couple of clues on the Internet. This can't be proven or dis-proven, but it might start to make sense after you have watched the price of Bitcoin for a few months, and have witnessed it run up and crash a few times.

I just put on my tin-foil helmet. Here goes....

The VWAP of Bitcoin is controlled by powerful interests. This group is referred to as the "Bitcoin Illuminati". The leader is thought to be "Sir Richard", and he owns an island in the Caribbean.

He is a very smart, successful, and powerful man. The same can be said of the rest of the Bitcoin Illuminati. As a group, they own over 50% of Bitcoin. The group also contains some government officials, both foreign and domestic.

Many people believe that they are controlling, or in some way influencing the price of Bitcoin.

The Bitcoin Illuminati don't care very much about the "retail" price of Bitcoin in the short-term, but they are very interested in the VWAP, and they want a "controlled" upward price bias. They don't want the price to run-up too quickly, because it would kill the adoption of Bitcoin.

Their goal is for the mass adoption of Bitcoin, either as a currency or as an acceptable and desirable hard asset. They are strongly invested in Bitcoin, and they are going to win.

Bitcoin trades at 2 prices, the price we see is the retail price. I believe that the "dark" price is actually a few dollars higher. The "dark" prices are quoted by HFT's and Miners. If you want to buy 1000 Bitcoin, you don't go to Coin Base.

All that said, my advice is to study some price charts from 2015 until now, and see how the volatility has become greatly reduced, and the length of price crashes has also reduced.

Buy more Bitcoin when it crashes. The crashes are short-lived opportunities. Ignore the noise and controversies on Reddit. There is too much money on the table, and too many players, for Bitcoin to fail. It will succeed beyond your wildest dreams.

Remember this - my "tin-foil" hat theory only applies to Bitcoin.
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:fraud, theft, and a ton of losses by early adopters mishandling their assets/wallets.


I'm guilty of this too. I have 50 Ether that I bought during the "pre-sale" that are "trapped" on a computer. It is currently beyond my technical skills to free them up, but that day will come.
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Long John
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Interesting and educational post, Tom. And Travis, too. Please don't ever think I am critical of your decisions or positions. I am skeptical by nature and often wear a devil's advocate hat even if I am not entirely convinced of that argument. Having delved into crypto a bit, I may have said stoopid noob things regarding details, but I have seen nothing that proves me wrong about the ability of crypto to be hacked, infiltrated, manipulated, or used in any of the conspiratorial ways ascribed to JP Morgan and its partners in crime.

I have heard about Branson and his Illuminati-like partners, of course. With so much money at stake, and so much available to be pulled in, there is no way crypto does not attract both criminals and ultra-rich manipulators like moths to a flame. It is new technology, freed from some old constraints and problems, but bearing new ones. In the end it is currency. There will always be manipulators, whatever the format.

Speaking of manipulators, there is an interesting chart of the world's biggest banks in terms of assets. In case you have any doubts about who owns the world...

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Of the 100 biggest banks, China has 19 of them, double the next largest country, the U.S. (Note that Russia is far, far down the list.) And the largest Chinese banks are part of and run by the Chinese government. Whether China stands with or against Branson's group on crypto, I am not sure, you probably know. But the chart is thought-provoking, either in the context of crypto or otherwise.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Long John wrote:I have heard about Branson and his Illuminati-like partners, of course. With so much money at stake, and so much available to be pulled in, there is no way crypto does not attract both criminals and ultra-rich manipulators like moths to a flame. It is new technology, freed from some old constraints and problems, but bearing new ones. In the end it is currency. There will always be manipulators, whatever the format.


Neither China nor the Bitcoin Illuminati are manipulators. They understand Bitcoin, and they want it to be adopted. That's one of the reasons why China regulated their Bitcoin exchanges.

I'd call it professional management, and we're going to get rich on Bitcoin by being early adopters.

Bitcoin is $1210 - so what. What's the price in 2020 at the next halving? $5000 - $10000.....maybe more.

All countries hold "reserve currencies", which are the currencies of their trading partners. They consider these as part of their "national wealth". The Japanese government will soon begin receiving Bitcoin from sales revenue. I can't see how they would exchange Bitcoin for Yen. They can print more Yen.

A couple of the "kas*itistans" are receiving it too. So are a couple of States.

You can run the presses all day long, there is a finite number of Bitcoin. They understand the game since they made the rules.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Apr 09, 2017

2020 sounds so far away, but it's right around the corner... God willing.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:Many people believe that they [the Bitcoin Illuminati] are controlling, or in some way influencing the price of Bitcoin.


Bucketeer wrote:Neither China nor the Bitcoin Illuminati are manipulators.


How is controlling or in some way influencing not manipulating?
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Apr 09, 2017

jcz1 wrote:
Bucketeer wrote:Many people believe that they [the Bitcoin Illuminati] are controlling, or in some way influencing the price of Bitcoin.


Bucketeer wrote:Neither China nor the Bitcoin Illuminati are manipulators.


How is controlling or in some way influencing not manipulating?


These are my personal beliefs. You can call me wrong or question them in your own mind. I will restate my previous comments for clarity, but I am not going to engage in a debate.

If you think Bitcoin is being manipulated, then it probably is, and you've stated your point. If so, I conceed.

I will try to explain my word-usage and opinions, and you can draw your own conclusions. I earned my BS in night school over more than 10 years time. That's the hard way. English and Creative Writing were not very high on the curriculum, but numbers mattered a lot.

I googled "manipulation", here are the results. I also noticed that several dictionaries had alternate and additional viewpoints.

I will focus on item #2. I especially note the word "unscrupulous".
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The definition of "manipulation" is:

ma·nip·u·la·tion
noun
1.
the action of manipulating something in a skillful manner.
"the format allows fast picture manipulation"
2.
the action of manipulating someone in a clever or unscrupulous way.
"there was no deliberate manipulation of visitors' emotions"[/b]
----------------------------------
Now, to my previous statements:

1) Many people believe that they [the Bitcoin Illuminati] are controlling, or in some way influencing the price of Bitcoin.

My Reply: I don't think that watering a tomato seedling is a manipulation, although it may violate God's plan. "Staking" a tomato plant could be seen as a manipulation of the natural growth of the plant, but the staking is done to increase the yield, and not allow it to rot on the ground. The plants "adopt" the change, and that provides a higher yield that benefits everybody. I'd call it the "best economic usage" for society, and for the tomato plant.

I willing submit that I manipulated and influenced my 2 daughters in ways that allowed them to become successful in their business careers. They "adopted" some of the concepts that I tried to instill in them, and they became economically successful in their careers.

Many people believe that "BI" and China are influencing, controlling, repressing, or otherwise "manipulating" the price of Bitcoin.

There are also at least 6 companies doing this. I own shares in one of them, and I know they trade Bitcoin, although they don't state what they trade in, or in which markets they trade. But I know.

None of these players want Bitcoin to explode upwards in price overnight, although it easily could. Downward spikes only brings in buyers.

I consider all of the commercial and governmental entities as "early adopters", and they are trying to position Bitcoin for its' best possible economic use. Start watching Japan in 6 months, I believe that they publish their revenue data monthly.

2) Neither China nor the Bitcoin Illuminati are manipulators.

My Reply: As a specific statement, I'm incorrect. Both BI and China are clever parties with a specific goal, that is to make Bitcoin an adoptable currency or asset. However, "manipulator" is a rather strong verb. I see them as farmers with a seedling, and a hungry population in their background. We all know fiat is dead.

This is a technical topic about Bitcoin. It has been that way for 3 or 4 years. If you'd like, I'd be honored to help you become an adopter, if you aren't a current owner. :thumbup:
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Long John wrote:2020 sounds so far away, but it's right around the corner... God willing.


Just wait until the end of this year.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Sun Apr 09, 2017

I guess it depends what impression the term "Illuminati" leaves on one's mind. The historical reference to the Bavarian Illuminati may have one meaning, for those who have heard of it, while the Illuminati (and its variants) from fiction and film may leave a less benign impression. I think the Illuminati needs better PR. :lol:

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Apr 09, 2017

So call them deep pocket gangsters if it makes you feel better. :thumbup:

The broker who "introduced" me into bucketeering when I was in high school paid me $1.60 an hour to wipe the windows and haul out the trash. He always paid cash, I made about $15 a week.

Once or twice a week, he had me hand-carry a brief case to one of his many clients, many of whom where lawyers.

The client's office would always show me right in, the client would open the bag, and then they would get a big smile on their face. I ALWAYS received a $100 tip from the client. This was back when a $20 bill was serious money.

I looked him up after I left the Air Force, but sadly he had retired to Florida. I saw him once before he died.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:So call them deep pocket gangsters if it makes you feel better. :thumbup:

The broker who "introduced" me into bucketeering when I was in high school paid me $1.60 an hour to wipe the windows and haul out the trash. He always paid cash, I made about $15 a week.

Once or twice a week, he had me hand-carry a brief case to one of his many clients, many of whom where lawyers.

The client's office would always show me right in, the client would open the bag, and then they would get a big smile on their face. I ALWAYS received a $100 tip from the client. This was back when a $20 bill was serious money.

I looked him up after I left the Air Force, but sadly he had retired to Florida. I saw him once before he died.


I don't actually know what this story tells us, and I don't know what bucketeering is. However, when I double-click on that word, then right-click and select "search google for bucketeering," I get re-directed instead to racketeering. Is that what this story is about?
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Apr 09, 2017

Damn Jim, I spent 2 hours trying to answer your 1st question about Bitcoin manipulation and you called me on nothing.

Consider me disappointed :cry: .
-------------------
If you go to Wikipedia and search on "Bucket shop", it will explain the practice of Bucketeering. A Bucketeer is one who runs a bucket shop. I have never run a bucket shop, but I worked for a bucket shop while in high school.

It will also tell you that the practice was outlawed in the 1920's. However, that is incorrect. The game changed and it continued into the mid-1980's, but under very different circumstances. It may still exist today. There are still regional stock exchanges.

When I worked for my boss, I observed many things. Many years later in life, I began to understand what he was doing. how he did it, and why he did it.

NASDAQ didn't exist back then. It was NASD, and all transactions were "over the counter". No computers back then, just a telephone call and "trust" among the different brokers, and their clients.

I did what my boss told me to do. I carried a few bags from his office to his clients. The clients always tipped well - maybe my boss told them to do that. I don't know, but I'm certain that the bags were valuable.

Some of the things he did might be considered "questionable". But that was then. I was 17 and a junior in high school.

I learned a lot, but it only made sense later.
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Apr 09, 2017

To answer the obvious question that is hanging out there, I might suspect that my boss or his clients were laundering money. I just carried it for the "last mile", and as a minor, I couldn't be charged with a felonious crime.

Meanwhile, back to Bitcoin. Currently $1217. Buy now or cry next year.
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