Bitcoins - fad or trend?

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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Mar 19, 2017

Brick's wrote:Thanks for the post/link on the fork. Feel like I'm "starting" to get up to speed. This is a nice drop and a good thing In my eyes. Especially for folks looking for an entry point.

My suggestion is, and has been, is for anybody to enter into Bitcoin on a small scale. Your choice of wallet doesn't matter at this point, but your participation does.

Don't worry about your wallet choice if you are speculating with $50. You can always change wallets after you buy. Hot wallets are free. Relax.
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Bucketeer
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Mar 19, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:I just finished reading a book by Andreas Antonopoulos called The Internet of Money which is all about bitcoin. It is a summary of his talks on the subject from 2013 to 2016. It's only 123 pages and is a great read. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in next generation blockchain technology and why bitcoin is here to stay; and it also answers many questions in this thread more eloquently than I am able to.


SilverDoge is spot-on. Bitcoin is the future of money. World money, without central banks or government regulations. Your money.
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SilverDoge
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Mon Mar 20, 2017

A simple use case:

I currently live in Italy. My Italian landlord requires payment via a check or bank transfer from a national (Italian) bank in euro. I asked to use paypal, or a US bank check, or bitcoin, or any other convenient method. Answer: no. He doesn't want the Italian government thinking he is doing anything below board due to fear of audits or soul-crushing government reach into his life, and about 30% of my rent payment will go to the Italian government in the form of taxes and fees (according to him).

So every 2 or 3 months, I transfer several months rent from my US bank account to my Italian bank account in order to then send him a bank transfer for the rent. Each time I do this it costs me $45 USD because it is an international bank wire transfer. It doesn't matter that I'm transferring money from an account I own (in reality the bank "owns" it but you know what I mean) in the US to an account I own in Italy. These are my funds. Irrelevant. It also takes about 4-5 business days to transfer money from my US account, to my Italian account, and then to his Italian account. Additionally it physically takes about 30 minutes of my time between calling my US bank (via Skype), verifying my identity over phone and email, and then doing the actual transfers.

If I could do this all in bitcoin it would take minutes and probably cost less than $3. If I were using Ethereum I could probably set up a smart contract to automate it so I didn't have to do anything. This is the future of money. Take the power away from the wealthy banksters and decentralize it. This is just one small application highlighting the power of blockchain technology. One can fight it or just get on board and be an early adopter. It's coming one way or another, because this current system is bull$hit and everybody knows it.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Mon Mar 20, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:A simple use case:

I currently live in Italy. My Italian landlord requires payment via a check or bank transfer from a national (Italian) bank in euro. I asked to use paypal, or a US bank check, or bitcoin, or any other convenient method. Answer: no. He doesn't want the Italian government thinking he is doing anything below board due to fear of audits or soul-crushing government reach into his life, and about 30% of my rent payment will go to the Italian government in the form of taxes and fees (according to him).

So every 2 or 3 months, I transfer several months rent from my US bank account to my Italian bank account in order to then send him a bank transfer for the rent. Each time I do this it costs me $45 USD because it is an international bank wire transfer. It doesn't matter that I'm transferring money from an account I own (in reality the bank "owns" it but you know what I mean) in the US to an account I own in Italy. These are my funds. Irrelevant. It also takes about 4-5 business days to transfer money from my US account, to my Italian account, and then to his Italian account. Additionally it physically takes about 30 minutes of my time between calling my US bank (via Skype), verifying my identity over phone and email, and then doing the actual transfers.

If I could do this all in bitcoin it would take minutes and probably cost less than $3. If I were using Ethereum I could probably set up a smart contract to automate it so I didn't have to do anything. This is the future of money. Take the power away from the wealthy banksters and decentralize it. This is just one small application highlighting the power of blockchain technology. One can fight it or just get on board and be an early adopter. It's coming one way or another, because this current system is bull$hit and everybody knows it.


You can probably use paypal to save money even in this case. Paypal now owns Xoom, which can be used to send money to a bank account in Italy, using your paypal funds. Even with a fee and possible exchange rate differences, it can't cost $45!

You can check it out right now - go into your paypal account, and select Send Money, then International. Choose Italy from the drop down and go from there, you should be able to get a cost of doing this if you have bank account details.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverpv » Mon Mar 20, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:A simple use case:

I currently live in Italy. My Italian landlord requires payment via a check or bank transfer from a national (Italian) bank in euro. I asked to use paypal, or a US bank check, or bitcoin, or any other convenient method. Answer: no. He doesn't want the Italian government thinking he is doing anything below board due to fear of audits or soul-crushing government reach into his life, and about 30% of my rent payment will go to the Italian government in the form of taxes and fees (according to him).

So every 2 or 3 months, I transfer several months rent from my US bank account to my Italian bank account in order to then send him a bank transfer for the rent. Each time I do this it costs me $45 USD because it is an international bank wire transfer. It doesn't matter that I'm transferring money from an account I own (in reality the bank "owns" it but you know what I mean) in the US to an account I own in Italy. These are my funds. Irrelevant. It also takes about 4-5 business days to transfer money from my US account, to my Italian account, and then to his Italian account. Additionally it physically takes about 30 minutes of my time between calling my US bank (via Skype), verifying my identity over phone and email, and then doing the actual transfers.

If I could do this all in bitcoin it would take minutes and probably cost less than $3. If I were using Ethereum I could probably set up a smart contract to automate it so I didn't have to do anything. This is the future of money. Take the power away from the wealthy banksters and decentralize it. This is just one small application highlighting the power of blockchain technology. One can fight it or just get on board and be an early adopter. It's coming one way or another, because this current system is bull$hit and everybody knows it.



Why wouldn't you just use your bitcoins and convert to euros and pay that way? You could bypass the $45 and go for the 1% charge which is hopefully less than the $45. I do like the idea of electronic currency, but I don't think it won't be built without regulation. The whole attack on cash is reasoning behind making everyone have a paper trail. Blockchain that trail will still exist. I'm not sure if Bitcoin will be the dominant coin in the future, only because the limit is too small and dealing with fractionals is semi-unrealistic. It would only be used by very specific places. With a limit of 21million though in a world filled with 7-8 billion people. It's just not feasible, to me at least. This is where I do think Ethereum has a bit better design but we'll see how it plays out.

From some ears, the Chinese are hot on blockchain/fintech with several startups with a significant amount of funding and ahead in some cases to US rivals.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Tue Mar 21, 2017

Yet another reason to own bitcoin or crypto. I often think about international travel, but how about cops deciding you are a criminal for having "large" amounts of cash, valuables (precious metals), and seizing your assets with civil asset forfeiture laws without even charging you for a crime.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-2 ... b-us-blind

More property was seized by cops in 2014 than burglars. Let that sink in for a second.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... last-year/

Corrupt cops can't steal my bitcoin, and corrupt banks can't bail-in themselves or put capital controls on my bitcoin either. USA - the land of the free, until you've got cash or valuables on a federal highway. Got crypto?
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Tue Mar 21, 2017

Your friendly neighborhood devil's advocate here. Bank BTC uses different technology and terminology than Bank ABC to store the numbers representing your holdings, but that doesn't mean Bank BTC is forever immune from internal corruption or outside interference -- or surveillance. Ordinary citizens and investors are not the only ones attracted by the anonymous benefits of BTC, and the intelligence agencies know it.

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SilverDoge
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Tue Mar 21, 2017

jcz1 wrote:
You can probably use paypal to save money even in this case. Paypal now owns Xoom, which can be used to send money to a bank account in Italy, using your paypal funds. Even with a fee and possible exchange rate differences, it can't cost $45!

You can check it out right now - go into your paypal account, and select Send Money, then International. Choose Italy from the drop down and go from there, you should be able to get a cost of doing this if you have bank account details.


I will give this a try in the near future and see how/if it works. It appears as though they accept my Italian bank so we'll see. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Tue Mar 21, 2017

Long John wrote:Your friendly neighborhood devil's advocate here. Bank BTC uses different technology and terminology than Bank ABC to store the numbers representing your holdings, but that doesn't mean Bank BTC is forever immune from internal corruption or outside interference -- or surveillance. Ordinary citizens and investors are not the only ones attracted by the anonymous benefits of BTC, and the intelligence agencies know it.


Not exactly sure this analogy is working. There is no bank that holds my bitcoin long term. I might acquire bitcoin through an exchange (some based in US, others not) but I hold my own bitcoin. Currently it is on a KeepKey device which is smaller than a cell phone. One could hold it on that, or a Trezor, or Nano, etc. It is the private keys that hold the value. A "BTC bank" only holds the private keys if you let them. So sure, a BTC "bank" like Coinbase is subject to all US regulations, and in fact they are fighting the government right now who want all records of their members. Doesn't matter for those who hold their own bitcoin. If the cops seize my KeepKey it also doesn't matter. They don't know the PIN and I'm not giving it to them. I can simply buy another KeepKey, re-initialize it with my 12 word passphrase, and I have my bitcoin. The cops have nothing.

If intel agencies want to stop bitcoin, what do they do? Try to tell Congress to make mining crypto illegal? Fat chance. Even if they did, mining would still continue (both "illegally" in the US, and legally in 200 other countries). The gatekeepers of high finance will throw up many scary objections to the masses about crypto. Do you think it is because they have your best interests in mind, or their own?
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Altima » Tue Mar 21, 2017

Congrats to those who bought the dip at 950 ish. Seems like it's on the uptrend again.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby agnostic » Wed Mar 22, 2017

"Back in '82 I used to be able to throw a pigskin a quarter mile" --Uncle Rico

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Wed Mar 22, 2017

agnostic wrote:The hard fork issue... http://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/ ... unlimited/


Yup. I like the YT channel Cryptoverse. Here is a quick episode talking Core vs Unlimited.

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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby iron-pyrite » Thu Mar 23, 2017

Haven't seen the answer to this question yet.

After all the coins have been mined, what would the motivation be for large scale hashing of the blockchain?
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Thu Mar 23, 2017

iron-pyrite wrote:Haven't seen the answer to this question yet.

After all the coins have been mined, what would the motivation be for large scale hashing of the blockchain?


Transaction fees back to the miners to keep the blockchain updated. Tom alluded to this earlier in the thread and it makes sense to me as well.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Thu Mar 23, 2017

Bitcoin transmissions going slow today. I've sent 3 transactions on the network between .25 and .50 BTC each, and 2 of the 3 took about a half hour, and 1 is still not through after an hour. Ugh.

I can see why Dash and up and coming alt-coin PIVX are doing well in the last few weeks.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Fri Mar 24, 2017

Bitcoin under $1,000
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby iron-pyrite » Fri Mar 24, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:Bitcoin under $1,000



Dam! I just spent my $ on more gold! Maybe next week. Seems to be volatile to no end!
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Brick's » Fri Mar 24, 2017

iron-pyrite wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:Bitcoin under $1,000



Dam! I just spent my $ on more gold! Maybe next week. Seems to be volatile to no end!


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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Fri Mar 24, 2017

iron-pyrite wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:Bitcoin under $1,000



Dam! I just spent my $ on more gold! Maybe next week. Seems to be volatile to no end!


Volatility is back. The BTC dominance is at a very low level right now at 67%. Meaning that people are selling the bitcoins and shifting into alt-coins right now due to the slower transaction times, the higher network fees, and uncertainty about a possible bitcoin fork. It will be very interesting to see this play out and how the future of crypto will proceed.
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Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Altima » Fri Mar 24, 2017

Altima wrote:Congrats to those who bought the dip at 950 ish. Seems like it's on the uptrend again.


Oups I said too soon. Now it's back to buying territory.

Money seems to be flowing out of Bitcoin into ETH and other alt-coins at the moment. Lots of uncertainty of the forking issue.
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