Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Discussion of all things crypto and blockchain.
Altima
Posts: 995
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014
Location: Canada/Singapore

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Altima » Sat Mar 18, 2017

This is a good read if you're wondering about the hard-fork issue:

http://bitcoinist.com/prepare-bitcoin-hard-fork/
"Two things define you. Your patience when you have nothing, and your attitude when you have everything."

User avatar
Bucketeer
Bearish Supporter
Posts: 2455
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014
Location: Warily watching the herd.

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Mar 19, 2017

iron-pyrite wrote:Question, after a hard fork does the coin ever become reconciled again? Or will there forever be more and more different blockchains?

That can go either way. With Ethereum, there are 2 coins (ETH & ETC). ETH is Ethereum. ETC is Ethereum Classic.

I think there is a low-probability of a coin being re-joined, after a hard fork. If there was a consensus, it never would have forked.

If you buy Ethereum from an Exchange, you will only receive ETH.
Last edited by Bucketeer on Sun Mar 19, 2017, edited 3 times in total.
Gentlemen prefer Engelhard.

User avatar
Bucketeer
Bearish Supporter
Posts: 2455
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014
Location: Warily watching the herd.

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Mar 19, 2017

Long John wrote:
Altima wrote:Meanwhile I'm trying to get 1 bitcoin. Anyone has any for sale? :D

You don't just buy through Coinbase whenever you get the itch? You have to know a specific person who wants to sell?


Always better to buy off the chain, if you know a seller.
Gentlemen prefer Engelhard.

User avatar
Bucketeer
Bearish Supporter
Posts: 2455
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014
Location: Warily watching the herd.

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Mar 19, 2017

When Ethereum hard-forked, people holding Ether (ETH) became holders of 2 coins (ETH + ETC).

A market developed for ETC, it was selling for approx 1/10 the price of ETH after the fork. I believe that most people sold ETC and bought ETH with the proceeds. People still trade ETC, it is still being developed (I guess), but it is an anomaly.

A hard fork is a confusing situation for most people, and best avoided if possible.
Last edited by Bucketeer on Sun Mar 19, 2017, edited 2 times in total.
Gentlemen prefer Engelhard.

User avatar
silverbender
Gold Supporter
Posts: 969
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015
Location: Ohio

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverbender » Sun Mar 19, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:
Long John wrote:
Altima wrote:Meanwhile I'm trying to get 1 bitcoin. Anyone has any for sale? :D

You don't just buy through Coinbase whenever you get the itch? You have to know a specific person who wants to sell?


Always better to buy off the chain, if you know a seller.
My only option has been ATM with a hefty premium.
Image

User avatar
Bucketeer
Bearish Supporter
Posts: 2455
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014
Location: Warily watching the herd.

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Mar 19, 2017

Bucketeer wrote:A case could be made for both $840 and $720. Just Bitcoin being Bitcoin, enjoy the ride.

You do realize that people with SERIOUS money are trying to scare you out of your coins, right?


Slightly more than 50% of Bitcoin is held by STRONG MONEY. Those people want YOUR Bitcoins, and they want them CHEAP. Relax and don't worry. Bitcoin will be fine, and you will be too.
Gentlemen prefer Engelhard.

User avatar
Bucketeer
Bearish Supporter
Posts: 2455
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014
Location: Warily watching the herd.

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Mar 19, 2017

silverbender wrote:
Bucketeer wrote:
Long John wrote:
Altima wrote:Meanwhile I'm trying to get 1 bitcoin. Anyone has any for sale? :D

You don't just buy through Coinbase whenever you get the itch? You have to know a specific person who wants to sell?


Always better to buy off the chain, if you know a seller.
My only option has been ATM with a hefty premium.


The reason is AML/KYC regulations, and taxes.
Gentlemen prefer Engelhard.

User avatar
silverbender
Gold Supporter
Posts: 969
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015
Location: Ohio

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverbender » Sun Mar 19, 2017

Yep the basic desire to have anonymous funds even if they are not substantially large or already from previously reported income.
Last edited by silverbender on Sun Mar 19, 2017, edited 2 times in total.
Image

User avatar
SilverDoge
Constitutional Supporter
Posts: 3976
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014
Location: Italy

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Mar 19, 2017

Coinbase is going to start charging the applicable fees for on-chain transactions staring 21 March...

"Network transaction fees: We will discontinue paying network transaction fees for on-chain transactions starting March 21st, 2017. Network transaction fees do not go to Coinbase, they go to the miners of the Bitcoin and Ethereum networks. Since our inception, we have been paying network fees on behalf of our customers to help support the growth of the bitcoin and ethereum networks. We now have over 6 million users worldwide, and this has become a significant cost. Fees will be assigned dynamically based on the current network conditions and will be paid by customers when they send an on-chain transaction. Transactions between Coinbase accounts will continue to be off-chain and free."

https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-spri ... .s0dxbxmbt
Image

User avatar
Brick's
Supporter
Posts: 1401
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012
Location: 'Cuse

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Brick's » Sun Mar 19, 2017

Thanks for the post/link on the fork. Feel like I'm "starting" to get up to speed. This is a nice drop and a good thing In my eyes. Especially for folks looking for an entry point.

User avatar
bluejuice915
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016
Location: Uncensored Reality

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby bluejuice915 » Sun Mar 19, 2017

Hey guys.
So as you know, my dad & I are looking to get into the bitcoin market. I'm researching the wallets. I'm down to choosing between Electrum and BitCoin Core. Any insight into these would be much appreciated. And please confirm for me: "Hot Wallets" store your data and coins online, whereas "Cold Wallets" store them on your computer?
Thanks in advance.
-_-

I'm hoping I'm wrong, but it will be so satisfying to say I was right.

...And the greatest minds in the world cried at the surrounding stupidity.

User avatar
SilverDoge
Constitutional Supporter
Posts: 3976
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014
Location: Italy

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Mar 19, 2017

bluejuice915 wrote:Hey guys.
So as you know, my dad & I are looking to get into the bitcoin market. I'm researching the wallets. I'm down to choosing between Electrum and BitCoin Core. Any insight into these would be much appreciated. And please confirm for me: "Hot Wallets" store your data and coins online, whereas "Cold Wallets" store them on your computer?
Thanks in advance.


If I were buying in today I would buy something in the range of 80% bitcoin, 20% ethereum. A cold wallet is one that essentially isn't hackable because it isn't connected online. It is private keys stored on a USB or Trezor or KeepKey or written on a piece of paper. This is more secure. A cold wallet could be a computer that isn't connected to the internet. Hot wallets are potentially hackable because they are online, but are more convenient when it comes to spending. It is good to have both, with a majority position stored offline (cold).

While a company like Coinbase is more convenient, they want you to identify yourself and prove that identity in order to easily buy BTC and ETH. Some don't mind, others prefer to remain more anonymous or private.
Image

User avatar
SilverDoge
Constitutional Supporter
Posts: 3976
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014
Location: Italy

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Sun Mar 19, 2017

I just finished reading a book by Andreas Antonopoulos called The Internet of Money which is all about bitcoin. It is a summary of his talks on the subject from 2013 to 2016. It's only 123 pages and is a great read. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in next generation blockchain technology and why bitcoin is here to stay; and it also answers many questions in this thread more eloquently than I am able to.
Image

User avatar
Bucketeer
Bearish Supporter
Posts: 2455
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014
Location: Warily watching the herd.

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Mar 19, 2017

Brick's wrote:Thanks for the post/link on the fork. Feel like I'm "starting" to get up to speed. This is a nice drop and a good thing In my eyes. Especially for folks looking for an entry point.

My suggestion is, and has been, is for anybody to enter into Bitcoin on a small scale. Your choice of wallet doesn't matter at this point, but your participation does.

Don't worry about your wallet choice if you are speculating with $50. You can always change wallets after you buy. Hot wallets are free. Relax.
Gentlemen prefer Engelhard.

User avatar
Bucketeer
Bearish Supporter
Posts: 2455
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014
Location: Warily watching the herd.

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Bucketeer » Sun Mar 19, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:I just finished reading a book by Andreas Antonopoulos called The Internet of Money which is all about bitcoin. It is a summary of his talks on the subject from 2013 to 2016. It's only 123 pages and is a great read. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in next generation blockchain technology and why bitcoin is here to stay; and it also answers many questions in this thread more eloquently than I am able to.


SilverDoge is spot-on. Bitcoin is the future of money. World money, without central banks or government regulations. Your money.
Gentlemen prefer Engelhard.

User avatar
SilverDoge
Constitutional Supporter
Posts: 3976
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014
Location: Italy

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Mon Mar 20, 2017

A simple use case:

I currently live in Italy. My Italian landlord requires payment via a check or bank transfer from a national (Italian) bank in euro. I asked to use paypal, or a US bank check, or bitcoin, or any other convenient method. Answer: no. He doesn't want the Italian government thinking he is doing anything below board due to fear of audits or soul-crushing government reach into his life, and about 30% of my rent payment will go to the Italian government in the form of taxes and fees (according to him).

So every 2 or 3 months, I transfer several months rent from my US bank account to my Italian bank account in order to then send him a bank transfer for the rent. Each time I do this it costs me $45 USD because it is an international bank wire transfer. It doesn't matter that I'm transferring money from an account I own (in reality the bank "owns" it but you know what I mean) in the US to an account I own in Italy. These are my funds. Irrelevant. It also takes about 4-5 business days to transfer money from my US account, to my Italian account, and then to his Italian account. Additionally it physically takes about 30 minutes of my time between calling my US bank (via Skype), verifying my identity over phone and email, and then doing the actual transfers.

If I could do this all in bitcoin it would take minutes and probably cost less than $3. If I were using Ethereum I could probably set up a smart contract to automate it so I didn't have to do anything. This is the future of money. Take the power away from the wealthy banksters and decentralize it. This is just one small application highlighting the power of blockchain technology. One can fight it or just get on board and be an early adopter. It's coming one way or another, because this current system is bull$hit and everybody knows it.
Image

User avatar
jcz1
Posts: 4257
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011
Location: USA

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Mon Mar 20, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:A simple use case:

I currently live in Italy. My Italian landlord requires payment via a check or bank transfer from a national (Italian) bank in euro. I asked to use paypal, or a US bank check, or bitcoin, or any other convenient method. Answer: no. He doesn't want the Italian government thinking he is doing anything below board due to fear of audits or soul-crushing government reach into his life, and about 30% of my rent payment will go to the Italian government in the form of taxes and fees (according to him).

So every 2 or 3 months, I transfer several months rent from my US bank account to my Italian bank account in order to then send him a bank transfer for the rent. Each time I do this it costs me $45 USD because it is an international bank wire transfer. It doesn't matter that I'm transferring money from an account I own (in reality the bank "owns" it but you know what I mean) in the US to an account I own in Italy. These are my funds. Irrelevant. It also takes about 4-5 business days to transfer money from my US account, to my Italian account, and then to his Italian account. Additionally it physically takes about 30 minutes of my time between calling my US bank (via Skype), verifying my identity over phone and email, and then doing the actual transfers.

If I could do this all in bitcoin it would take minutes and probably cost less than $3. If I were using Ethereum I could probably set up a smart contract to automate it so I didn't have to do anything. This is the future of money. Take the power away from the wealthy banksters and decentralize it. This is just one small application highlighting the power of blockchain technology. One can fight it or just get on board and be an early adopter. It's coming one way or another, because this current system is bull$hit and everybody knows it.


You can probably use paypal to save money even in this case. Paypal now owns Xoom, which can be used to send money to a bank account in Italy, using your paypal funds. Even with a fee and possible exchange rate differences, it can't cost $45!

You can check it out right now - go into your paypal account, and select Send Money, then International. Choose Italy from the drop down and go from there, you should be able to get a cost of doing this if you have bank account details.
Democracy Dies in Darkness

silverpv
Gold Supporter
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverpv » Mon Mar 20, 2017

SilverDoge wrote:A simple use case:

I currently live in Italy. My Italian landlord requires payment via a check or bank transfer from a national (Italian) bank in euro. I asked to use paypal, or a US bank check, or bitcoin, or any other convenient method. Answer: no. He doesn't want the Italian government thinking he is doing anything below board due to fear of audits or soul-crushing government reach into his life, and about 30% of my rent payment will go to the Italian government in the form of taxes and fees (according to him).

So every 2 or 3 months, I transfer several months rent from my US bank account to my Italian bank account in order to then send him a bank transfer for the rent. Each time I do this it costs me $45 USD because it is an international bank wire transfer. It doesn't matter that I'm transferring money from an account I own (in reality the bank "owns" it but you know what I mean) in the US to an account I own in Italy. These are my funds. Irrelevant. It also takes about 4-5 business days to transfer money from my US account, to my Italian account, and then to his Italian account. Additionally it physically takes about 30 minutes of my time between calling my US bank (via Skype), verifying my identity over phone and email, and then doing the actual transfers.

If I could do this all in bitcoin it would take minutes and probably cost less than $3. If I were using Ethereum I could probably set up a smart contract to automate it so I didn't have to do anything. This is the future of money. Take the power away from the wealthy banksters and decentralize it. This is just one small application highlighting the power of blockchain technology. One can fight it or just get on board and be an early adopter. It's coming one way or another, because this current system is bull$hit and everybody knows it.



Why wouldn't you just use your bitcoins and convert to euros and pay that way? You could bypass the $45 and go for the 1% charge which is hopefully less than the $45. I do like the idea of electronic currency, but I don't think it won't be built without regulation. The whole attack on cash is reasoning behind making everyone have a paper trail. Blockchain that trail will still exist. I'm not sure if Bitcoin will be the dominant coin in the future, only because the limit is too small and dealing with fractionals is semi-unrealistic. It would only be used by very specific places. With a limit of 21million though in a world filled with 7-8 billion people. It's just not feasible, to me at least. This is where I do think Ethereum has a bit better design but we'll see how it plays out.

From some ears, the Chinese are hot on blockchain/fintech with several startups with a significant amount of funding and ahead in some cases to US rivals.

User avatar
SilverDoge
Constitutional Supporter
Posts: 3976
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014
Location: Italy

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Tue Mar 21, 2017

Yet another reason to own bitcoin or crypto. I often think about international travel, but how about cops deciding you are a criminal for having "large" amounts of cash, valuables (precious metals), and seizing your assets with civil asset forfeiture laws without even charging you for a crime.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-2 ... b-us-blind

More property was seized by cops in 2014 than burglars. Let that sink in for a second.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... last-year/

Corrupt cops can't steal my bitcoin, and corrupt banks can't bail-in themselves or put capital controls on my bitcoin either. USA - the land of the free, until you've got cash or valuables on a federal highway. Got crypto?
Image

User avatar
Long John
Turtle Supporter
Posts: 3417
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016
Location: Northeast

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Tue Mar 21, 2017

Your friendly neighborhood devil's advocate here. Bank BTC uses different technology and terminology than Bank ABC to store the numbers representing your holdings, but that doesn't mean Bank BTC is forever immune from internal corruption or outside interference -- or surveillance. Ordinary citizens and investors are not the only ones attracted by the anonymous benefits of BTC, and the intelligence agencies know it.


Return to “Bitcoin/Crypto/Blockchain”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AuAgJohn, goldfanbrad, Tractor Man and 3 guests