Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Discussion of all things crypto and blockchain.
silverpv
Gold Supporter
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverpv » Tue Feb 13, 2018

tdtwedt wrote:Virtually Nobody Is Reporting Crypto Profits To The IRS

Fewer than 100 people out of the 250,000 who have already filed federal taxes this year through Credit Karma reported a cryptocurrency transaction, Reuters reported Tuesday.

This, despite nearly 57% of the 2000 Americans surveyed by the credit score startup and research firm Qualtrics last month saying they had realized some gains from cryptocurrencies last year, according to a Credit Karma study. About the same percentage of respondents said they had never reported a crypto transaction to the IRS. Meanwhile, about half said they understood how cryptocurrency gains might impact their taxes.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02- ... rofits-irs


It really depends on how much we're talking about here. A few thousand most people won't report. Big money has no choice but to report. Most people I think are like on this board, with the exception of a few folks. Most people don't put 10's of thousands of dollars into bitcoin. Maybe a few hundred to a couple thousand.

silverpv
Gold Supporter
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverpv » Tue Feb 13, 2018

Long John wrote:Re: the PayPal discussion. PP forfeits millions every month by not cracking down on the fee-less Friends & Family payments that are actually for Goods & Services. Maybe they have a fair idea of how much of that goes on, but realize that many of those people would simply take their business elsewhere, so PP accepts it as the price of being as big as they are. As long as it's not too blatant, not too much money received from "friends" on a daily basis, they are willing to look the other way. But luck can be pushed too far. I know of a couple of BS members who had extremely generous friends & family :lol: and a red flag went up at PP. I never rose to that level, whatever it is, myself. I've sent big shipments of silver for PPFF, but they were few and far between. I was actually glad when some people asked if they could pay by check. You sure can! :thumbup:

What does this have to do with Bitcoin? Not sure, but it's a topic that interests a lot f BSers.


I always wonder when they will stop me or others with ppff. For sure its the premeire way for crypto to bypass fees, not including other commerce communities on facebook and other boards. Crypto makes this a bit less restrictive with less worry but paypal is super convenient as a payment system.

User avatar
Long John
Turtle Supporter
Posts: 3756
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016
Location: Northeast

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Tue Feb 13, 2018

silverpv wrote:Most people don't put 10's of thousands of dollars into bitcoin. Maybe a few hundred to a couple thousand.

Coinbase doesn't even send IRS (or you) a form 1099 unless you've done $20,000 worth of trades/transfers after the initial buy-in. I'm guessing people who don't get a 1099 don't report their minor dealings. Those who did get the form, and were stubborn enough to stand fast through the various crashes last year, now must pay the taxman for their gains. Sadly Coinbase's download-able transaction records don't make it easy to calculate your cost basis if you made a lot of moves.

Anyway, I wouldn't dispute that many Americans fail to report their non-wage gains, including crypto, if they think they can get away with it. But the idea that more than half of Americans made a profit on crypto is absurd on its face. I would be surprised if as many as 2% of Americans had ever owned any crypto. It must be 57% of crypto investors said they made a profit.

silverpv
Gold Supporter
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverpv » Tue Feb 13, 2018

Long John wrote:
silverpv wrote:Most people don't put 10's of thousands of dollars into bitcoin. Maybe a few hundred to a couple thousand.

Coinbase doesn't even send IRS (or you) a form 1099 unless you've done $20,000 worth of trades/transfers after the initial buy-in. I'm guessing people who don't get a 1099 don't report their minor dealings. Those who did get the form, and were stubborn enough to stand fast through the various crashes last year, now must pay the taxman for their gains. Sadly Coinbase's download-able transaction records don't make it easy to calculate your cost basis if you made a lot of moves.

Anyway, I wouldn't dispute that many Americans fail to report their non-wage gains, including crypto, if they think they can get away with it. But the idea that more than half of Americans made a profit on crypto is absurd on its face. I would be surprised if as many as 2% of Americans had ever owned any crypto. It must be 57% of crypto investors said they made a profit.


Did you get a 1099-k from CB? I didn't. I didn't sell until this year. I'm going to report what I can there based on trades from bittrex and CB. If you already did that, would you mind trying out a tax calculator i'm working on? Just need to see if the #'s match.

User avatar
SilverDoge
Constitutional Supporter
Posts: 4681
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014
Location: Kansas

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Tue Feb 13, 2018

tdtwedt wrote:Virtually Nobody Is Reporting Crypto Profits To The IRS

Fewer than 100 people out of the 250,000 who have already filed federal taxes this year through Credit Karma reported a cryptocurrency transaction, Reuters reported Tuesday.

This, despite nearly 57% of the 2000 Americans surveyed by the credit score startup and research firm Qualtrics last month saying they had realized some gains from cryptocurrencies last year, according to a Credit Karma study. About the same percentage of respondents said they had never reported a crypto transaction to the IRS. Meanwhile, about half said they understood how cryptocurrency gains might impact their taxes.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02- ... rofits-irs


I call total BS on 57% of Americans surveyed not only owning crypto but also profiting. No chance that is accurate.
Image

User avatar
tdtwedt
Gold Supporter
Posts: 5557
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014
Location: South Mississippi

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby tdtwedt » Tue Feb 13, 2018

SilverDoge wrote:
tdtwedt wrote:Virtually Nobody Is Reporting Crypto Profits To The IRS

Fewer than 100 people out of the 250,000 who have already filed federal taxes this year through Credit Karma reported a cryptocurrency transaction, Reuters reported Tuesday.

This, despite nearly 57% of the 2000 Americans surveyed by the credit score startup and research firm Qualtrics last month saying they had realized some gains from cryptocurrencies last year, according to a Credit Karma study. About the same percentage of respondents said they had never reported a crypto transaction to the IRS. Meanwhile, about half said they understood how cryptocurrency gains might impact their taxes.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02- ... rofits-irs


I call total BS on 57% of Americans surveyed not only owning crypto but also profiting. No chance that is accurate.


They may have had profits on Dec 31, 2017. Today, probably not....
There are more ways than one to skin a cat.

silverpv
Gold Supporter
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverpv » Tue Feb 13, 2018

tdtwedt wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:
tdtwedt wrote:Virtually Nobody Is Reporting Crypto Profits To The IRS

Fewer than 100 people out of the 250,000 who have already filed federal taxes this year through Credit Karma reported a cryptocurrency transaction, Reuters reported Tuesday.

This, despite nearly 57% of the 2000 Americans surveyed by the credit score startup and research firm Qualtrics last month saying they had realized some gains from cryptocurrencies last year, according to a Credit Karma study. About the same percentage of respondents said they had never reported a crypto transaction to the IRS. Meanwhile, about half said they understood how cryptocurrency gains might impact their taxes.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02- ... rofits-irs


I call total BS on 57% of Americans surveyed not only owning crypto but also profiting. No chance that is accurate.


They may have had profits on Dec 31, 2017. Today, probably not....


As long as they didn't buy in Dec. They're still profitable. I'm still up 10x even now and i stopped new purchases at the end of Sept.

User avatar
SilverDoge
Constitutional Supporter
Posts: 4681
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014
Location: Kansas

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby SilverDoge » Tue Feb 13, 2018

silverpv wrote:
tdtwedt wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:
tdtwedt wrote:Virtually Nobody Is Reporting Crypto Profits To The IRS

Fewer than 100 people out of the 250,000 who have already filed federal taxes this year through Credit Karma reported a cryptocurrency transaction, Reuters reported Tuesday.

This, despite nearly 57% of the 2000 Americans surveyed by the credit score startup and research firm Qualtrics last month saying they had realized some gains from cryptocurrencies last year, according to a Credit Karma study. About the same percentage of respondents said they had never reported a crypto transaction to the IRS. Meanwhile, about half said they understood how cryptocurrency gains might impact their taxes.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02- ... rofits-irs


I call total BS on 57% of Americans surveyed not only owning crypto but also profiting. No chance that is accurate.


They may have had profits on Dec 31, 2017. Today, probably not....


As long as they didn't buy in Dec. They're still profitable. I'm still up 10x even now and i stopped new purchases at the end of Sept.

It is the "owning" part, not the profiting part that I am calling BS on. 57% of Americans have not purchased crypto.
Image

silverpv
Gold Supporter
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby silverpv » Tue Feb 13, 2018

SilverDoge wrote:
silverpv wrote:
tdtwedt wrote:
SilverDoge wrote:
tdtwedt wrote:Virtually Nobody Is Reporting Crypto Profits To The IRS

Fewer than 100 people out of the 250,000 who have already filed federal taxes this year through Credit Karma reported a cryptocurrency transaction, Reuters reported Tuesday.

This, despite nearly 57% of the 2000 Americans surveyed by the credit score startup and research firm Qualtrics last month saying they had realized some gains from cryptocurrencies last year, according to a Credit Karma study. About the same percentage of respondents said they had never reported a crypto transaction to the IRS. Meanwhile, about half said they understood how cryptocurrency gains might impact their taxes.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02- ... rofits-irs


I call total BS on 57% of Americans surveyed not only owning crypto but also profiting. No chance that is accurate.


They may have had profits on Dec 31, 2017. Today, probably not....


As long as they didn't buy in Dec. They're still profitable. I'm still up 10x even now and i stopped new purchases at the end of Sept.

It is the "owning" part, not the profiting part that I am calling BS on. 57% of Americans have not purchased crypto.


I agree with you there!.. no way, 188M people in America have crypto (57% of 330M). I would be quit my job and have a huge RV party with all of you invited to Burning man for a week.

jcz1
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011
Location: USA

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Tue Feb 13, 2018

Something got lost in translation at ZH. Here's another take:

For example, in a survey of more than 2,000 American cryptocurrency owners conducted in January by Credit Karma Tax along with research firm Qualtrics, some 57% of respondents said they’d realized gains on their crypto investments—profits the IRS considers taxable. And yet even more Americans (59%) said they had never reported any such gains to the IRS.

http://fortune.com/2018/02/13/bitcoin-c ... tax-taxes/

User avatar
tdtwedt
Gold Supporter
Posts: 5557
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014
Location: South Mississippi

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby tdtwedt » Tue Feb 13, 2018

jcz1 wrote:Something got lost in translation at ZH. Here's another take:

For example, in a survey of more than 2,000 American cryptocurrency owners conducted in January by Credit Karma Tax along with research firm Qualtrics, some 57% of respondents said they’d realized gains on their crypto investments—profits the IRS considers taxable. And yet even more Americans (59%) said they had never reported any such gains to the IRS.

http://fortune.com/2018/02/13/bitcoin-c ... tax-taxes/


:clap: :clap: :clap:
There are more ways than one to skin a cat.

User avatar
bigjohn
Turtle Supporter
Posts: 4492
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015
Location: Western Washington

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby bigjohn » Tue Feb 13, 2018

The two statistics don’t really provide enough facts to drive conclusions, they are totally unrelated. It’s like saying that the sun rose at 7 AM this morning and mashed potatoes are still delicious. If they asked the 2000 crypto owners the tax reporting question, I am sure results would have been much different. The fact that only 100 out of 250,000 people that had already done their taxes so early in the year ( which are usually the simplest returns of the lowest income households that are expecting a refund) in no way relates to the group that have profited from crypto currency. I would go out on the limb and say that 90% of people that made over $10,000 in crypto currency last year will not file their taxes before April 15
OPEN A COINBASE ACCOUNT AND BOTH OF US WILL GET $10
https://www.coinbase.com/join/593592a00b8e899741fd9dec

ImageImage Image

jcz1
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011
Location: USA

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Tue Feb 13, 2018

I didn't see this one posted here:

$200m worth of coins stolen from cryptocurrency exchange

Italian cryptocurrency exchange BitGrail has been forced to apologise to customers after revealing it lost nearly $200 million worth of Nano in a cyber-hacking attack.

The company disclosed the theft in a post on its website, saying it was made aware that 17 million Nano coins were stolen from the exchange in unauthorised transactions.

One Nano, which trades as "XRB", equals about $11.05, meaning $187,850,000 worth of cryptocurrency was stolen.

https://finance.nine.com.au/2018/02/12/ ... 00-million

jcz1
Posts: 4865
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011
Location: USA

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby jcz1 » Tue Feb 13, 2018

The so-called "real-life Wolf of Wall Street" Jordan Belfort gave an interview discussing Bitcoin and "its babies" as he called the alts. There have been warnings here about Tether, and he claims it is being used to keep Bitcoin from falling too low in value, by creating tether from nothing and using that to buy Bitcoin (and others). The reason to keep its price up is not to make money in Bitcoin, but to keep the excitement in the market so new alt coins can be created, and that is where they are making their money.

“At this point in time the money’s been made in bitcoin already. If you’re in the crypto game right now and you’re looking to make money — the guys that are really committing the fraud — the only way to do it is, you need to issue a new currency at the bottom and ride it up.”
...
He told The Street that the only way to keep issuing new cryptos was to “keep bitcoin up high enough so people still believe in cryptocurrency so they create the illusion of prosperity”. “This is what I did, I’m sad to say, at Stratton,” he said.

“The days of bitcoin making money are over for the scamsters.
...
the only way to make money is to create a new supply of some new cryptocurrency, and then by keeping the old ones high enough people will dump even more money into the new ones and they make their money on that.
...
Belfort said he was “trying to wake a lot of them up”. He cited the growing concerns about controversial cryptocurrency tether, a so-called “stablecoin” which claims to hold US dollar deposits in a one-to-one ratio. Critics have alleged that tether is being created out of thin air in order to buy bitcoin, artificially inflating the price.

“They hate me right now but they’re going to love me in a few months when the crap really hits the fan, when it’s [found] out that tether doesn’t exist, or half of it’s missing, and then the FBI’s going to swoop in, SWAT teams, it’s going to be really bad stuff,” he said.

“You’re going to find out that it was even worse than I ever imagined, because that’s how these things [are] in an unregulated market — it attracts the worst people. So all these millennials, I love them, it’s not your fault, but there’s a lot of really bad people at the centre of this thing that are setting you up and you’re going to be left holding the bag. They call them ‘hodlers’.”

Belfort said it was “not just a matter of saying, if there’s not as much tether we have to subtract $US3000 out of bitcoin”. “It’s not that, it’s much worse than that,” he said. “Because what you’ll see is that they used tether to artificially support the market of bitcoin, thereby dragging more suckers into the game.

“It’s maintaining the illusion of prosperity, not allowing something to go down that should be going down, and by keeping it up they bring more people into the game.”

http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/in ... 4ff64357f2

Also mentioned in this story about the interview (not part of the interview itself):

On Tuesday, a report by investment bank JP Morgan said there was a “fairly high risk” of the currency dropping further to $US4605. Bloomberg Intelligence commodity strategist Mike McGlone was even more bearish, saying there was a “strong gravitational pull” towards $US900, bitcoin’s average price since inception.

cmiller17363
Gold Supporter
Posts: 757
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby cmiller17363 » Tue Feb 13, 2018

Jordan Belfort has zero credibility and I will take nothing he says seriously. His advice is: Quick get out before you lose everything! The scamsters are going to collapse crypto because they can't siphon anything more from it!!

No, thank you, I have already lost everything if I keep my wealth in fiat. I will not rely on a system of corruption. I'll take my chances with Bitcoin. This isn't about making money to me.

“It’s maintaining the illusion of prosperity, not allowing something to go down that should be going down, and by keeping it up they bring more people into the game.”

That sounds familiar..... and it isn't Bitcoin.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
texmex66
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby texmex66 » Tue Feb 13, 2018

What does Andreas have to say? $2b tether holding up $146b of Bitcoin? Makes since to me. :roll:

User avatar
tdtwedt
Gold Supporter
Posts: 5557
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014
Location: South Mississippi

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby tdtwedt » Tue Feb 13, 2018

texmex66 wrote:What does Andreas have to say? $2b tether holding up $146b of Bitcoin? Makes since to me. :roll:


From the link in the jcz1 article...

At current prices, net new Bitcoin requires $18M of net new $ flowing in to maintain the price. Yet there is a net $100M/day of fake $s in the form of Tethers.


http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/in ... 7a0b59a23b

:pop:
There are more ways than one to skin a cat.

User avatar
texmex66
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby texmex66 » Tue Feb 13, 2018

tdtwedt wrote:
texmex66 wrote:What does Andreas have to say? $2b tether holding up $146b of Bitcoin? Makes since to me. :roll:


From the link in the jcz1 article...

At current prices, net new Bitcoin requires $18M of net new $ flowing in to maintain the price. Yet there is a net $100M/day of fake $s in the form of Tethers.


http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/in ... 7a0b59a23b

:pop:


What does your calculations say? I could quote others jist as easy. :pop:

User avatar
tdtwedt
Gold Supporter
Posts: 5557
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2014
Location: South Mississippi

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby tdtwedt » Tue Feb 13, 2018

texmex66 wrote:
tdtwedt wrote:
texmex66 wrote:What does Andreas have to say? $2b tether holding up $146b of Bitcoin? Makes since to me. :roll:


From the link in the jcz1 article...

At current prices, net new Bitcoin requires $18M of net new $ flowing in to maintain the price. Yet there is a net $100M/day of fake $s in the form of Tethers.


http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/in ... 7a0b59a23b

:pop:


What does your calculations say? I could quote others jist as easy. :pop:


I agree with their calculations. :geek:
There are more ways than one to skin a cat.

User avatar
Long John
Turtle Supporter
Posts: 3756
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016
Location: Northeast

Re: Bitcoins - fad or trend?

Postby Long John » Wed Feb 14, 2018

silverpv wrote:Did you get a 1099-k from CB? I didn't. I didn't sell until this year. I'm going to report what I can there based on trades from bittrex and CB. If you already did that, would you mind trying out a tax calculator i'm working on? Just need to see if the #'s match.

I didn't get the 1099-K in the mail, I got an email link to where I could view and print it. If you didn't get that, you must not have met the $20K threshold on CB in 2017.

For those who haven't been following the Tax Implications thread, buying crypto with fiat is the only thing not considered a taxable event. Any other crypto transaction, includould have used Coinbase as my cash on-ramp and off-ramp, and done my trading and communing with wallets from a foreign exchange. Much easier to figure out my tax liability: cash out minus cash in equals capital gain. Done.ing transferring to another wallet/exchange or trading for a different crypto, is the same as cashing out as far as the IRS is concerned. It's up to you to calculate how much gain or loss you had from each transaction. The 1099-K just adds up all the taxable events using USD value at the time and leaves the cost basis for you to figure out.


Return to “Bitcoin/Crypto/Blockchain”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests